Author Topic: Questions of campaign style  (Read 7543 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Questions of symbolism
For the love of God please don't set me off.

I will just say this: more often than not you will find that the people who make the things you like themselves like and understand a lot of things you don't like, and there's a reason for that.

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Questions of campaign style
As a dev I've got to say I would ignore pretty much every opinion in this thread, except I guess Swash's.

I think that's the proper attitude.... I also tend to abhor "focus-groups based design".

+1 for "screw focus-groups"

However Axem asked the question and there is no reason not to answer it ... If he requires this feedback he should have it; as someone who made campaigns I can relate to to the wish for feedback about specific points ...

A little confused that Battuta is the one practically saying "screw feedback" (WiH census polls...)

And Axem states specifically he's not asking as a creator. Otherwise I'd have just sent him the first sentence in my response.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Questions of campaign style
And Axem states specifically he's not asking as a creator.

No, that's not what he said.

I'd like to pose these questions to the players of campaigns since you are the audience and you seem to love giving opinions!
[...]
I'd like to hear your thoughts on these as players, not as a creator (for any FREDders that reply).
"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Questions of campaign style
And Axem states specifically he's not asking as a creator.

I'd like to pose these questions to the players of campaigns since you are the audience and you seem to love giving opinions!
[...]
I'd like to hear your thoughts on these as players, not as a creator (for any FREDders that reply).

Ah, I misread it. Thanks for that.

The amusing thing is what I said still applies to me, as that's how I feel about making stuff. Also amusing, I'm now not sure if I'd have created my response if I'd read it right!  :D

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Questions of campaign style

Quote
1.) Would you rather have a campaign full of new and untested ideas or tried and true ones?
I prefer a mix of both.

Quote
2.) Do you tend to view your interaction with a campaign as a strict "first-person-like" affair (you are the character), or a "third-person-like" affair (you see the story through the character's eyes, like a book). Or do you change your interaction based on how the campaign expresses the intent? (aka the don't care option)
Don't care.

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3.) How important is a story? Are you just happy with a flimsy pretense to shoot up rebels and kill Shivans? Or do you need an elaborate political crisis and motivation to go to war?
Does it need to culminate in a galaxy-spanning event, saving all of humanity? Does a story need to make concrete amounts of sense or can you still enjoy a light story by just rolling with everything?
A good story will greatly enhance a campaign, but I'll accept an average one so long as the writing itself isn't bad.

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Bonus edited-in question: Would you play a campaign with a story that you find really bad, but has really good gameplay?
Yes.

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4.) How much effort should be used to create a setting?
However much it takes to make a good setting.

Quote
5.) How important are the structures/orders of battle?
As long as it doesn't create plotholes, I'm fine with throwing stuff in to suit the gameplay.

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6.) Should a campaign be about something (a theme, a question) or do those literary devices just belong in other media and not games? Does any attempt at symbolism or dramatic devices just take away from the enjoyment of a campaign?
I appreciate it if a story has some meaning beyond shooting things, but it shouldn't consume the narrative and turn everything into a preachy mess.

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7.) Does the use of generally known music hurt the enjoyment of a campaign? Do you just think of the original source instead of the campaign?
No.
Current Project - Eos: The Coward's Blade. Coming Soon (hopefully.)

 

Offline Axem

  • 211
Re: Re: Questions of symbolism
Its okay Battuta, this isn't a cry for help or desperation or anything. :p I know these questions sort of came out all focus-groupy, and I don't mean for a general style that good campaigns must follow to arise from this. I do think that we should listen to ourselves first about what we want when we craft a campaign. Every week or so, I see or get told "Hey Axem, I have a great idea for JAD..." and 99% of the time, I will never use it (Sorry dudes). I appreciate the intent and all, but just cramming in an idea that's not part of the creative flow rarely works.

But I do think that this general trend of replies is worth noting, because there is no trend! No one really agrees on anything! Well, the most prevalent answer is "whatever the campaign designer wants", which is a good one to listen to anyway!

 

Offline Mebber

  • 25
Re: Questions of campaign style
Quote from: Axem
1.) Would you rather have a campaign full of new and untested ideas or tried and true ones?

As already said by others, i like a mix. With more "conventional" missions and ideas than experimental ones. Sure, there are so many campaigns with similiar stuff out there it could feel repetive, but then again that's what i know and still like to play. Missions with fresh gameplay can be both awesome and painful in my experience, it depends on the execution. If they're backed up by a good amount of good regular Freespace-like missions, a mission with a new idea which sadly fails in execution isn't all that bad, and if it's awesome, it's a true campaign highlight besides the more conventional stuff.

Quote from: Axem
Do you tend to view your interaction with a campaign as a strict "first-person-like" affair (you are the character), or a "third-person-like" affair (you see the story through the character's eyes, like a book).

Mostly first-person-like, because in most cases it feels more immersive. But a third-person-affair can be real great. If the the char is well-written and presented, i'll gladly switch perspective. Again, it's all up to the execution i guess.

Quote from: Axem
How important is a story? Are you just happy with a flimsy pretense to shoot up rebels and kill Shivans? Or do you need an elaborate political crisis and motivation to go to war?

Story is quite important for me, but a good story doesen't have to be epic all the time, a good atmosphere and authentic feel are much more important for me. And i like to let my own imaginations enhance the experience. I like many secondary story elements like entries in the techroom or minor hints in the briefings to events or situations i haven't actually experienced in-game, because they give my fantasy fuel to think more of the universe i'm playing in right now, and how it might look like.

Quote from: Axem
How much effort should be used to create a setting?

As above, i really appreciate if the dev puts much effort into the setting. It's a big deal for my personal gaming experience, but i imagine it to be not very satisfactory for a dev to put hours of hours of work into something which is actually just accessory for the game itself, not like the gameplay or missions themselves. So i just see it as a bonus. In the question of doubt, i'd always say a campaign with more polished actual gameplay and less setting info then the other way around is more reasonable.

Quote from: Axem
5.) How important are the structures/orders of battle?

I think for the sake of gameplay it would be better to concentrate on what the current mission needs to work fine instead of building the missions so they fit with a list, although a bit of off-mission contunity can be beneficial.

Quote from: Axem
Should a campaign be about something (a theme, a question) or do those literary devices just belong in other media and not games?

Depends on how hard the game tries to enforce this theme/question on me. If there a subtle hints and indications which may or may not direct my thoughts to certain questions etc. and let me think of them by myself, that's cool. If a game tries to forcefully make me think of a obviously presented big moral question, i get rather tired.

Quote from: Axem
Does the use of generally known music hurt the enjoyment of a campaign? Do you just think of the original source instead of the campaign?

Nah. If the music fits, i'm more lost in the overall expression "Wow, this is great!".

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: Questions of campaign style
1.) Would you rather have a campaign full of new and untested ideas or tried and true ones?
One criticism of Blue Planet Act 3 was that none of the missions were really standard fare and people were pretty divided if this was a good thing or not. Is a mix needed instead, sandwiching more normal missions in between radical ones? Do radical departures of gameplay just hurt a campaign? To have fun, would just simple missions with "attack this" "escort that" "scan over there" be enough?

Showing off something new has its pros and its cons. Some people will like it, some won't. You can't do something new (or keep doing something old) and pretend everyone to like it. Personally, I would like to see missions that start with a take-off sequence and end with a landing sequence, with in-mission subspace jumps and the usual stuff in between, but I can't deny the fact that many players just don't like it for various reasons (it's not classic, :v: didn't like it, I want to start the mission right where the action is, etc.).

2.) Do you tend to view your interaction with a campaign as a strict "first-person-like" affair (you are the character), or a "third-person-like" affair (you see the story through the character's eyes, like a book). Or do you change your interaction based on how the campaign expresses the intent? (aka the don't care option)
There's the age old debate of silent vs voiced protagonist and FreeSpace has its share of both in its many campaigns. But ones that take a voiced protagonist approach sometimes receive the criticism, "the player character would never say what I would!" or "I didn't really connect with any of the characters" and say it detracts from the experience. Do you think these come from the style used, or just bad writing? (Or would you assume the role of the Player Character, even if they make decisions that you would not.)

Uhm. Let's put it this way: if you give me a campaign where Alpha 1 (A.K.A. the player character) sends messages, is known by name, and the plot revolves around him/her, there's a good chance I will not like it. I tend to appreciate characters as long as they don't become more important than everything else in the Universe, but a player character is a no go for me. I just can't tolerate such a setting.

It doesn't mean I would "ban" campaigns where the player character talks, though.


3.) How important is a story? Are you just happy with a flimsy pretense to shoot up rebels and kill Shivans? Or do you need an elaborate political crisis and motivation to go to war?
Does it need to culminate in a galaxy-spanning event, saving all of humanity? Does a story need to make concrete amounts of sense or can you still enjoy a light story by just rolling with everything?

Bonus edited-in question: Would you play a campaign with a story that you find really bad, but has really good gameplay?

I believe the story is very, very important, but I don't need a super uber complicated political crisis or a heartbreaking premise to enjoy a campaign. If you have a good story and nicely FREDded missions, I don't see why I shouldn't enjoy your campaign.

About the bonus edited-in question: I played StarLancer and enjoyed it mostly because of its gameplay (take off and landing sequences, intense dogfights, death messages, the killboard, etc.). I didn't like the story, though.


4.) How much effort should be used to create a setting?
A campaign author may spend hours writing on how and why this planet has a problem with syndicate crime, detailed dossiers on important characters, or timelines that explain the human race from World War 2 to the Neo-Terran Conflict. Is a background necessary to enjoy, is it a bonus, or just words that you'd rather not read unless absolutely required? (Or would you like to read things, but FreeSpace's awful interface font prevents you from doing so?) Is putting any of the setting establishment into the campaign a good thing, or should it all be regulated to optional reading?

I like original settings, they add something interesting to the campaign. Spoon did a very good job with them in WoD. A few, well written and brief entries in the Tech Room are fine. I wouldn't go beyond that without a very good reason.

5.) How important are the structures/orders of battle?
By this I mean, should the campaign authors have a definitive list of active assets in a theater and only use them, or just smack down any number of corvettes as the mission needs corvettes to attack. Should we ever find a destroyer with no capital ship escort or a cruiser in the middle of nowhere just being there to be attacked by someone. Should each battle mean something to the story, or can some be there for some pleasurable blowing up time that doesn't change the story or tide of battle.

I like plausibility. A destroyer just can't be alone without a good reason, and there's no need to throw in ships in a battle that is lost right before its beginning. Ship deployments should be very well planned... and when things get bad, ships can and should pull back. I don't like when ships just wait for their hull integrity to reach 0 without a good reason.

On a slightly unrelated note, I would like to see more missions where the player's not supposed to fire a single shot. Search for exploitable asteroids, espionage, celebration flights, other kinds of space exploration... there are many things to do that don't require violence. ;)


6.) Should a campaign be about something (a theme, a question) or do those literary devices just belong in other media and not games? Does any attempt at symbolism or dramatic devices just take away from the enjoyment of a campaign?

I know people who love reading, watching movies and learning new stuff probably as much as I do. They don't say no to a good story. But when they turn their console or PC on, all they want is entertainment, action, nice graphics, enjoyable gameplay and proper difficulty levels. They believe that certain themes just don't belong to games and can ruin them. I tend to apply that philosophy to FreeSpace and I think there are attempts to throw in all kinds of dramas and stuff which IMO just don't fit.

In poor words, just because there are themes which work well in books and movies, it doesn't necessarily mean that the very same themes are expected to work well in games as well.


7.) Does the use of generally known music hurt the enjoyment of a campaign? Do you just think of the original source instead of the campaign?

Well, after so many years, Exodus has lost part of its awesomeness. More music is always welcome and if it's exclusive, well... wow.  :D
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Offline wistler

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Re: Questions of campaign style
Quote from: Axem on March 19, 2013, 08:15:54 pm

Quote
1.) Would you rather have a campaign full of new and untested ideas or tried and true ones?
One criticism of Blue Planet Act 3 was that none of the missions were really standard fare and people were pretty divided if this was a good thing or not. Is a mix needed instead, sandwiching more normal missions in between radical ones? Do radical departures of gameplay just hurt a campaign? To have fun, would just simple missions with "attack this" "escort that" "scan over there" be enough?

The issue I had with Blue Planet Act 3 was the learning curve and how new game mechanics were thrown at me for one mission. In a way it reminded me of Call Of Duty in how they'd introduce new game mechanics and only use them for a short space of time, never letting me have fun with them. I think a longer introduction period for new features would remedy this feeling.[/color]

Quote
2.) Do you tend to view your interaction with a campaign as a strict "first-person-like" affair (you are the character), or a "third-person-like" affair (you see the story through the character's eyes, like a book). Or do you change your interaction based on how the campaign expresses the intent? (aka the don't care option)
There's the age old debate of silent vs voiced protagonist and FreeSpace has its share of both in its many campaigns. But ones that take a voiced protagonist approach sometimes receive the criticism, "the player character would never say what I would!" or "I didn't really connect with any of the characters" and say it detracts from the experience. Do you think these come from the style used, or just bad writing? (Or would you assume the role of the Player Character, even if they make decisions that you would not.)


I think it depends on if the character has something interesting to say. I like Half-Life 2 as much as I like Uncharted, and the players characters are the very opposite of each other in that respect. I feel a lot of frustration when the character is meant to know something I don't, or feel something I wouldn't. I think Deus Ex: Human Revolution strikes a really good balance in the conversational choices.

Quote
3.) How important is a story? Are you just happy with a flimsy pretense to shoot up rebels and kill Shivans? Or do you need an elaborate political crisis and motivation to go to war?
Does it need to culminate in a galaxy-spanning event, saving all of humanity? Does a story need to make concrete amounts of sense or can you still enjoy a light story by just rolling with everything?


I feel a lot of frustration everytime I load up a new mod and get slapped with a wall full of text. I rarely pay any attention until I get into the gameplay and see if I want to really invest. You have to earn the right for people to sit there and read page after page of writing. Saying that, a well told story will get me invested and make me want to stick with the campaign, wether its galaxy-spanning or quite a small tale.

Quote
4.) How much effort should be used to create a setting?
A campaign author may spend hours writing on how and why this planet has a problem with syndicate crime, detailed dossiers on important characters, or timelines that explain the human race from World War 2 to the Neo-Terran Conflict. Is a background necessary to enjoy, is it a bonus, or just words that you'd rather not read unless absolutely required? (Or would you like to read things, but FreeSpace's awful interface font prevents you from doing so?) Is putting any of the setting establishment into the campaign a good thing, or should it all be regulated to optional reading?

As much effort as necessary really. It should equal out comfortably with the amount of play time. If the background info is handled to intrusively, say I get slapped with a Fiction Viewer, then a Campaign Briefing, then a long-ass-winded mission briefing, and then have to sit through pilots chatting exposition in-game, then you've lost my attention.

You can express of lot of information to make me care in a few words.

Quote

5.) How important are the structures/orders of battle?
By this I mean, should the campaign authors have a definitive list of active assets in a theater and only use them, or just smack down any number of corvettes as the mission needs corvettes to attack. Should we ever find a destroyer with no capital ship escort or a cruiser in the middle of nowhere just being there to be attacked by someone. Should each battle mean something to the story, or can some be there for some pleasurable blowing up time that doesn't change the story or tide of battle.

I remember JMS said he was always asked how fast a Starfury goes, and he said the speed of plot. You can sometimes get bogged down in the nitty gritty detail of trying to tell a -realistic- story and write yourself into a corner. As long as reasons are given and everything behaves in a sensible manner that's a enough for me.

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6.) Should a campaign be about something (a theme, a question) or do those literary devices just belong in other media and not games? Does any attempt at symbolism or dramatic devices just take away from the enjoyment of a campaign?

A think games are a perfect place to ask important questions that make you think. But the writer should remember that its a game, and the gameplay comes first.


 

Offline bigchunk1

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Re: Questions of campaign style
1.) Would you rather have a campaign full of new and untested ideas or tried and true ones?

I’m trying not to think like a dev here, but I think this is more a question of production value than anything else. A campaign that has a dedicated team behind it can afford to have more art or cool graphics or voice acting or a well thought out story. Generally when individuals or small teams have little to offer in way of production value, innovation is a natural strongpoint.

So from a player perspective, if the campaign has something to add besides innovative gameplay, say immersion or art or story(careful here!) then simple missions can work.

2.) Do you tend to view your interaction with a campaign as a strict "first-person-like" affair (you are the character), or a "third-person-like” affair?

It’s sort of like that character is a figure in history, and I am playing through a portion of their life. I don’t see myself as actually being the character as much as experiencing their story. I like seeing a gameworld through different perspectives, like for example if my character is unspeakably evil or twisted. A voiced protagonist has never bothered me for this reason.



3.) How important is a story? Does a story need to make concrete amounts of sense or can you still enjoy a light story by just rolling with everything?

Whatever serves the progress of the game. Story is a great tool to get the player invested in the game, but it can also get in the way. For example, the campaign starts rattling off the different factions in the universe before the player touches the controls. That I do not like. Let the player explore the game universe and give information about the story from that perspective.

I like the use of the word “concrete” in the question description. For me, it does not have to be so concrete. It could be humorous and disconnected or flow like a dream. So long as it serves the gameplay (and is good), I’m pretty loose with what shape the story has to take. 

Bonus edited-in question: Would you play a campaign with a story that you find really bad, but has really good gameplay?

Story to me is not as important as gameplay. Just as an example, I can’t remember what Andrew of Doom’s Schmupspace was about, but I can tell you one thing: it was really fun to play.


4.) How much effort should be used to create a setting?

Once again, as much as is needed to serve the game. If the player’s objectives are made richer or if it adds some atmosphere to the scene than it can be a good thing, but I have seen people go overboard because they want to do a good job by adding more, but at some point it’s just words. As a player, you’re not contributing to my experience by giving me more purposeless text to read. Respect my free time damnit!

5.) How important are the structures/orders of battle?

To me as a player, I haven’t really been bothered by ‘the ship out of nowhere’ if the universe is big enough where it’s plausible that “ships are in reserve”. On the other hand, a situation with limited resources is quite engaging to me, because the player can measure their progress against hard data.

So to answer the question, yes but it’s not necessary.

6.) Should a campaign be about something (a theme, a question) or do those literary devices just belong in other media and not games?

They very well could be, but again I think that such a dramatic focus on story alone ignores the possibilities a game can bring for engagement. You could smoke a pipe and ponder about symbolism, or you could watch with satisfaction as you just barely complete a difficult scenario. They’re just two different ways to engage your audience, and you can really tell when a game uses multiple aspects to full effect.

7.) Does the use of generally known music hurt the enjoyment of a campaign? Do you just think of the original source instead of the campaign?

For me, yes very much. I really think it’s cheesy when any form of art uses a popular song to paint an image or bring atmosphere to a scene. It shows a narrow taste in music and limits a game’s ability to be enlightening. Quite simply, I hate it.
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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Questions of campaign style
1.) Would you rather have a campaign full of new and untested ideas or tried and true ones? New. Tried and True is boring, seen way too much of it, tbh at this point I wouldn't play something like that, but I bet there's plenty of people that still would. 2.) Do you tend to view your interaction with a campaign as a strict "first-person-like" affair (you are the character), or a "third-person-like” affair? Depends on the campaign, generally 1st unless it doesn't let me (ie. character'd campaigns). Doesn't really matter though. 3.) How important is a story? Does a story need to make concrete amounts of sense or can you still enjoy a light story by just rolling with everything? Not very as long as it is new/fun. 4.) How much effort should be used to create a setting? As much as the author wants. Do it if its fun, someone is bound to read it. If it isn't then don't bother. Also the font does suck. 5.) How important are the structures/orders of battle? Unimportant. Can be fun to make though. Just make sure things make sense. 6.) Should a campaign be about something (a theme, a question) or do those literary devices just belong in other media and not games? They can be there but it shouldn't be the primary focus. Primary focus should be fun/engaging gameplay. 7.) Does the use of generally known music hurt the enjoyment of a campaign? Do you just think of the original source instead of the campaign? Even if I think of the original source, what does it matter? Perhaps that's a good thing.

this is about how important this all is

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« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 01:37:45 am by Droid803 »
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Questions of campaign style
Quote
1.) Would you rather have a campaign full of new and untested ideas or tried and true ones?
I only want retail like missions. new ideas confuse me and require me to read briefings.

Quote
2.) Do you tend to view your interaction with a campaign as a strict "first-person-like" affair (you are the character), or a "third-person-like" affair (you see the story through the character's eyes, like a book). Or do you change your interaction based on how the campaign expresses the intent? (aka the don't care option)
First person only. If I'm not alpha 1 I can't take it easy.

ps.
I really hate this recent trend of having women player characters.

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3.) How important is a story? Are you just happy with a flimsy pretense to shoot up rebels and kill Shivans? Or do you need an elaborate political crisis and motivation to go to war?
Does it need to culminate in a galaxy-spanning event, saving all of humanity? Does a story need to make concrete amounts of sense or can you still enjoy a light story by just rolling with everything?

Bonus edited-in question: Would you play a campaign with a story that you find really bad, but has really good gameplay?
I just want to shoot spaceships. Like  :v: did it.

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4.) How much effort should be used to create a setting?
I dont care. I dont read tech room entries.

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5.) How important are the structures/orders of battle?
What does this even mean?
There should be lots of capital ships.

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6.) Should a campaign be about something (a theme, a question) or do those literary devices just belong in other media and not games? Does any attempt at symbolism or dramatic devices just take away from the enjoyment of a campaign?
Anything that gets in the way of shooting wave after waves of fighters is a distraction that I do not want in a campaign.

Quote
7.) Does the use of generally known music hurt the enjoyment of a campaign? Do you just think of the original source instead of the campaign?
Whatever, I always have music turned off anyway so I can listen to dubstep.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Questions of campaign style
 :lol:
Current Project - Eos: The Coward's Blade. Coming Soon (hopefully.)

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Questions of campaign style
I lost it at "dubstep".
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Re: Questions of campaign style
1.  Probably a mix. It all has to do with story line and what actually happens. I like the mission in ST:R where you're escorting the freighters and the shivans take over the ships (at least I think that's what happened; I only played it once). So as long as it's not too out there and kinda sticks with the game mechanics, I'm good.

2. Unless you give me KOTOR type responses (don't know how I can do that while fighting shivans), I'd rather have silent 1st person. Maybe a little bit of "Yes, command" like other people have said, but not much.

3. Story is why I play FS1, FS2 so many times. That's why I play games so many times (like KOTOR). Sure I'd like to blow shivans up and if there are is a campaign that scraps real storyline for something cool, I'd play it. But for the most part, storyline.

3.5. So yeah, I'd play something if the good gameplay outweighed the bad storyline.

4. There should be a good background to what you are doing. I would like to know some history of the setting and how/if it relates to the FS universe. However, don't go overboard. I don't care to know that the GTVA has improved the GTT Argo with two more gun turrets in the years after Capella unless those were beam turrets or something equally unusual.

5. If you have random corvettes coming from nowhere, then you don't have much of a storyline. Therefore, the gameplay must be really good to combat that. Refer to answer 3.5.

6. I would say it would be very light.  :v: did a good job with labeling the Shivans the Great Destroyers and all that. To make the whole campaign an analogy of something is not needed and would bog down the storyline (unless you can pull it off, then yes).

7. I love the FS music. If you insert other music, it must be orchestral in nature. I really don't want to be hunting shivans while hearing "It's My Life". Unless you can pull it off and it adds to the storyline...

 

Offline wistler

  • 28
Re: Questions of campaign style
I really don't want to be hunting shivans while hearing "It's My Life". Unless you can pull it off and it adds to the storyline...

I'm suprised JAD hasn't done that already.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Questions of campaign style
2. Unless you give me KOTOR type responses (don't know how I can do that while fighting shivans), I'd rather have silent 1st person. Maybe a little bit of "Yes, command" like other people have said, but not much.

We can do that, though!

  

Offline Doko

  • 26
Re: Questions of campaign style
I realized halfway through answering that the topic is a month old but whatever! not letting it go to waste :D

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1.) Would you rather have a campaign full of new and untested ideas or tried and true ones?
One criticism of Blue Planet Act 3 was that none of the missions were really standard fare and people were pretty divided if this was a good thing or not. Is a mix needed instead, sandwiching more normal missions in between radical ones? Do radical departures of gameplay just hurt a campaign? To have fun, would just simple missions with "attack this" "escort that" "scan over there" be enough?

I'm fairly conservative in this regard and a firm believer that if you are gonna do something "crazy" it should be because your storytelling requires it, not because you simply can therefore you must make a mission to justify your new toy.
Sexps and scripts are tools to bring life into your story not the other way around.

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2.) Do you tend to view your interaction with a campaign as a strict "first-person-like" affair (you are the character), or a "third-person-like" affair (you see the story through the character's eyes, like a book). Or do you change your interaction based on how the campaign expresses the intent? (aka the don't care option)
There's the age old debate of silent vs voiced protagonist and FreeSpace has its share of both in its many campaigns. But ones that take a voiced protagonist approach sometimes receive the criticism, "the player character would never say what I would!" or "I didn't really connect with any of the characters" and say it detracts from the experience. Do you think these come from the style used, or just bad writing? (Or would you assume the role of the Player Character, even if they make decisions that you would not.)

I tend to put myself in 3rd person mostly because your decisions hardly ever carry consecuences in freespace campaigns so its hard for me to care about what I'd do instead of just playing along and see where it leads.
Grats on saving 100% of that civilian convoy alpha 1, here have a medal (in the rare ocassion you do get one). Or grats on scanning that cargo container out in the middle of no where instead of shooting stuff which would've made the mission much easier and fun, 2 missions later... there's no new weapon in the loadout screen, no extra wingmen, no extra reinforcements or that extra aeolus to guard the flank of your *next* escort mission, even if you have to spawn an SSM strike to kill it for balance reasons at least the player feels like his actions had meaning.

As for characters specifically I don't think many campaigns have taken the time to develop a characters deep enough to really care for, Blue planet being the exception at least for me, sorry if this offends anyone I have not every campaign ever made so...


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3.) How important is a story? Are you just happy with a flimsy pretense to shoot up rebels and kill Shivans? Or do you need an elaborate political crisis and motivation to go to war?
Does it need to culminate in a galaxy-spanning event, saving all of humanity? Does a story need to make concrete amounts of sense or can you still enjoy a light story by just rolling with everything?

I'm a sucker for galaxy spanning event campaigns so I'm pretty biased here. But lets say that your campaign isn't.. at least for me it would have to make up in other areas such as gameplay, story, characters or motivations.
Say for example... your campaign happens in some remote sector with little to no contact with some kind of military / goverment / corporation then you probably can't pull some major capital ship battles, in this case each ship should be important, the player should consistantly fly with the same cruiser, talk to the same captain, hear the same awacs officer to maximize the assets you do have available and make it all that much bitter when you lose them.
The story should be very character driven, lots of conversation with your wingmen etc.

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4.) How much effort should be used to create a setting?
A campaign author may spend hours writing on how and why this planet has a problem with syndicate crime, detailed dossiers on important characters, or timelines that explain the human race from World War 2 to the Neo-Terran Conflict. Is a background necessary to enjoy, is it a bonus, or just words that you'd rather not read unless absolutely required? (Or would you like to read things, but FreeSpace's awful interface font prevents you from doing so?) Is putting any of the setting establishment into the campaign a good thing, or should it all be regulated to optional reading?

Background information is always good, the player can always skip it. Its how you present it to the player that matters most with freespace and the interface is a huge problem but there are ways to minimze the problem.
What I hate the most is getting thrown into a campaign with someone expecting me to read 10 tech room articles just to understand whats going on, stuff needs to be sumarized to the player in the fiction viewer or briefing and depth added to it in the tech room, not everything in one place or the other.
If your campaign is not set in the canon freespace universe just do a small cutscene (just text will work fine) explaining to the player quickly what your universe is about, if he truly cares he'll go to the tech room and read more about it.
In your particular example crime is the same everywhere, there's no need to explain it too much, money, power, ideology etc... what should be important is explaining how the head of the syndicate thinks, what are their resources and how they are affecting the player character and those he cares about.
Depending on the type of story you are trying to tell the background will be meaningless or everything so I think this is up to the designer to gouge and see if his time is better spent on other aspects of the campaign.

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5.) How important are the structures/orders of battle?
By this I mean, should the campaign authors have a definitive list of active assets in a theater and only use them, or just smack down any number of corvettes as the mission needs corvettes to attack. Should we ever find a destroyer with no capital ship escort or a cruiser in the middle of nowhere just being there to be attacked by someone. Should each battle mean something to the story, or can some be there for some pleasurable blowing up time that doesn't change the story or tide of battle.

I think its awesome to take the time and figure out the resources available to the player's faction/allied factions. Losing a destroyer should be important, not just... oh there goes another 10k people, bring the new player base of operations and change his squadron!
As far as ship operating as individuals or battle groups that depends a lot on the campaign. But in general no destroyer should ever be by itself, these things are supposed to be the equivalent of an aircraft carrier, its not something you can just throw around and hope for the best (Except in super dire situations).
Everything else is fair for me, but I do prefer for ships to work as a group, more realistic that way, with that said when **** hits the fan some amazing things can be done with a random leviathan jumping in to save the day.

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6.) Should a campaign be about something (a theme, a question) or do those literary devices just belong in other media and not games? Does any attempt at symbolism or dramatic devices just take away from the enjoyment of a campaign?

They can be added and add enormous amounts of quality if done right but you shouldn't try to make the player feel like he has to change his life because he played your campaign imho.


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7.) Does the use of generally known music hurt the enjoyment of a campaign? Do you just think of the original source instead of the campaign?

I don't think so, music is basically emotions translated into sound waves so as long as they are used at the right time it won't matter if you've heard it before or not.