[karajorma]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/17/israel-freedom-speech-draft-law-ban-nazi

An Israeli draft law that would criminalise the use of the word Nazi in most cases has sparked a debate on freedom of speech.

Seven decades after the formation of the state of Israel, memories of the extermination of millions of Jews during the second world war permeate virtually every aspect of life in Israel. Public figures and interest groups frequently invoke the genocide to score political points, and the word and Nazi symbols have slipped into Israeli discourse over the years.

The bill would impose a fine of 100,000 shekels (more than £21,000) and six months in jail for anybody using the word or symbols from Adolf Hitler's Third Reich in a "wrong or inappropriate way". Educational settings would be exempt, as would certain artistic performances, said Shimon Ohayon, the bill's sponsor.

The Knesset gave preliminary approval to the measure on Wednesday, but it has to pass three more readings and committee discussions before becoming law. A similar effort in 2012 failed at the committee stage.

Ohayon, from the hardline Yisrael Beitenu party, said the law would put Israel on a par with other nations battling antisemitism. He acknowledged enforcement would largely rely on violations being reported to police.

"We want to prevent disrespect of the Holocaust," said Ohayon. "We allow too many freedoms, which are taking over in a way that is harming us."

Opponents say the measure endangers freedom of speech in a country that frequently asserts a claim to being the only democracy in the Middle East.

"Week after week you want to shut mouths and harm freedom of expression," said Zehava Galon, leader of the opposition Meretz party.

Six million Jews were murdered in the systematic Nazi effort to kill all the Jews of Europe. Created in 1948 in the shadow of the war, Israel provided a haven for hundreds of thousands of refugees liberated from Nazi death camps. Today, it is home to about 200,000 survivors.

It won't pass of course. They couldn't afford all the uses of The Holocaust every time Palestine is mentioned.

Pity really, as that might be part of the thinking behind the bill.

[Luis Dias]

Of course that Israel is just bored to death to all the comparisons people make between the nazis and what they are doing to palestinians. Why not pass the bill and stop pretending they care about freedoms at all.

[karajorma]

Well I think they use the Holocaust (and complaints of anti-semitism) pretty much any time someone brings up a legitimate complaint. So it might balance that out somewhat.

I find the idea interesting if only in that some people might start to realise that it wasn't only the Jews who died in the Holocaust, even if they were the single largest demographic.

[Colonol Dekker]

[Dragon]

Looks like Israel has jumped the shark recently. What's next? Work camps for the Arabs? Somebody tell them to look in the mirror, or we're in serious trouble...
In all seriousness, Israel paints itself as the only just country in the middle east, but it's slowly becoming just as bigoted as it's neighbors. Really, if it's really a modern, 1st world country it claims to be, it should stop going down that road. What they're doing isn't battling antisemitism anymore, it's sounding more and more like Semitic supremacy. Israelis, of all people, should realize it's a bad thing.

[An4ximandros]

But that would imply a government learning from history! Humans cannot do that!

[TrashMan]

Well I think they use the Holocaust (and complaints of anti-semitism) pretty much any time someone brings up a legitimate complaint. So it might balance that out somewhat.

I find the idea interesting if only in that some people might start to realise that it wasn't only the Jews who died in the Holocaust, even if they were the single largest demographic.

The law said "INAPROPRIATE USE".
I'm quite sure they would be exempt.

[Luis Dias]

Dragon stop being silly. What they are proposing is a variant of what is already law in Germany, for example.

[Al-Rik]

It won't pass of course. They couldn't afford all the uses of The Holocaust every time Palestine is mentioned.

Pity really, as that might be part of the thinking behind the bill.

A exaggerated comparison with the Nazis and their crimes is more worse than the Holocaust...

But to defend the Nazis:
Israel is really missing the standard the Nazis set.
Israel retreated from Sinai, Gaza and Lebanon. That's no way to be an evil imperialistic regime !
The Nazis invaded almost every country in Europe and get as far as to the Black Sea ! And they didn't give up one square meter of that conquest without a fight !

The Israelis even released a lot of prisoners to get back a single soldier !
The Nazis would have shoot 100 hostages to avenge the attack on him.

And the Holocaust thing !
The Nazis killed a lot of people, but in Gaza and on the West Bank the population has increased during the last 55 years.
That's no way to do a proper genocide ! It's supposed to be less people, not more !
Hell, even the Arabs are better in killing and suppressing their Palestinian Brothers than Israel.

If I where a Nazi, I would be deeply insulted to be compared with Israel !
So don't do it, because those Nazis aren't nice guys and may be pissed off by such comparisons.

[Dragon]

Dragon stop being silly. What they are proposing is a variant of what is already law in Germany, for example.

Yeah, and I'm not a fan of Germany's paranoia about the issue, either. You're quoting a law in the country that's also on the verge of going too far with censorship. While it's understandable that they're a bit sensitive about WWII and what happened in it, I think that both Germany and Israel go too far in their censorship of anything remotely Nazi-related. For example, their stance on usage of Nazi symbols in WWII games by actual Nazis is rather ridiculous (especially that for some reason, they don't seem to mind historical movies... I guess the games are not "proper history" then ). IMO, suppressing media dealing with WWII will only lead to people forgetting about those events, and this should not be allowed to happen.

Agreed though, comparing Israel to Nazi Germany would still be very insulting (comparisons to other countries in the area, on the other hand...). Still, that's the sort of thing that should not be forbidden by law, but simply refuted. Anything more restrictive than requiring an official apology for saying things like that would be restricting freedom of speech. And this should not be done. Oh, and "inappropriate use" tends to mean "anything we don't like". Such ambiguous expressions usually lead to abuse. Germany at least has that sorted out, IIRC, their law is quite specific about what's allowed and what's not.

[BloodEagle]

ffs, lvlshot NEEDS a percentage cap on how big those can get.

[karajorma]

The law said "INAPROPRIATE USE".
I'm quite sure they would be exempt.

When a famous Jew who doesn't live in Israel has to make a speech about how his grandmother didn't die in The Holocaust so that Israel could drive tanks over civilians it's obvious someone in Israel has been using The Holocaust in an inappropriate manner.

I can't find the link but do a search for Gerald Kaufman on youtube and you should quickly turn up what I'm talking about.

[666maslo666]

What a bunch of nazis

[TrashMan]

natzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzina tzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatz inatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzinatzi