Author Topic: Article by a Palestinian Scholar  (Read 5358 times)

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Re: Article by a Palestinian Scholar
Even if you constitutionally ban religion from politics entirely (something most countries could use, really)

how the **** would that even work
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Article by a Palestinian Scholar
see USSR
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Article by a Palestinian Scholar
I think the US constitution does a fair moderate good job at that.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Article by a Palestinian Scholar
the constitution does a better job at banning politics from religion than it does banning religion from politics.
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 
Re: Article by a Palestinian Scholar
That doesn't 'ban religion from politics' at all, it bans the government from discriminating based on religion. Politicians are completely free to make decisions and policies on the basis of their own religious belief and to court votes on the basis of doing so; the alternative would be crazy and horrific.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
Re: Article by a Palestinian Scholar
This whole idea that the Israel-Palestine conflict has its roots in some ancient religious clash is nonsense, anyway (and very flattering to the Western powers that actually started it). Its causes are an entirely secular affair, namely that people tend to get touchy at each other when they both want the same things.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Article by a Palestinian Scholar
That doesn't 'ban religion from politics' at all, it bans the government from discriminating based on religion. Politicians are completely free to make decisions and policies on the basis of their own religious belief and to court votes on the basis of doing so; the alternative would be crazy and horrific.

Banning the government from "discriminating based on religion" does already a lot of work for preventing governments using particular glaring religious arguments to their policies. But it falls short from forcing politicians basing their actions on their religions, which is good. As I said, it does a MODERATELY good job at it, the right compromise.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Article by a Palestinian Scholar
but it doesn't solve the problem of Jews becoming a minority in their own country.

Ironically enough it was exactly this in the other direction which caused the problem in the first place.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Article by a Palestinian Scholar
Ironically enough it was exactly this in the other direction which caused the problem in the first place.
Indeed. Although I do agree that having a place to call "my country" is important and the situation of Jews pre-Israel didn't really do that (they were isolated groups that often did not feel attached to a place they lived in), the way Israel was established was downright bone-headed. In order to give Jews a homeland, they took it away from people who already lived there. Then they reduced the natives to second class citizens. Despite being, for a long time, in the exact same situation themselves. Go figure. This is why Israel ticks me off so much. Jews are the ones who, of all people on Earth, should know better.
This whole idea that the Israel-Palestine conflict has its roots in some ancient religious clash is nonsense, anyway (and very flattering to the Western powers that actually started it). Its causes are an entirely secular affair, namely that people tend to get touchy at each other when they both want the same things.
It doesn't have roots in a religious clash, especially not an ancient one (by the time Muhammad came around Jews were already a minority in the region). But it's religious and ethnic rhetoric which makes it so hard to resolve. It's not entirely about politics, either. A large part of the problem is that Israel is a Jewish state and thus favors Jews (both in ethnic and religious sense), discriminating against Muslims, Arabs and especially Muslim Arabs, who constitute most of the local population. Of course, this does not sit well with them. If Israel was a secular country which the Arabs could also call "their own", the conflict wouldn't be as bad, with the separatists likely reduced to hardline fanatics. However, the way it is now, Arabs in Israel are treated like second-class citizens and the government itself proudly pronounces itself as "Jewish" and sidelines its own Arab population and their culture. Is there any wonder they want a place of their own? Or, more specifically, they want to get back the place that was their own before a bunch of foreigners moved in and took it as theirs.

They don't fight over anything that couldn't, in theory, be shared. The problem is, neither side wants to share. And I get a nagging feeling that they, in fact, want to keep up fight. Resolving this conflict would be easy if we were dealing with pure realpolitik, but we aren't. Indeed, the article in the OP clearly states many ways in which Palestinians failed at realpolitik (and Israeli have their share of that, too).

  

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Article by a Palestinian Scholar
The problem with the situation is it doesn't just require one side to want peace, it doesn't just want both sides to want peace, it also requires both sides to want peace at a cost the other side will be willing to pay, AND it requires both sides to enter into this state at the same time, AND maintain long enough for the peace to be implemented WITHOUT a small minority from either side screwing it up for everyone. It's a bit unreasonable to expect that really. It's a ****ty situation.
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together