Author Topic: rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics  (Read 3280 times)

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Offline Nuke

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
has anyone thought of doing a phisics engine that uses positions of rcs thrusters, main thrusters, vector of thrust, variable throttles (each engine canalter its throttle seperately), subspace or gravity drives, ship weight, center of gravity and other factors  to determine the manuverability of ships in a newtonian phisics environment.

not that i want the pilot to have to counter every move he makes. the ships computer will try its best to stabalize your ship with the engines and thrusters it has at its disposal.

what i want is the posibility of loosing control of your ship.
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Offline athropy

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
Yeah, I like the idea. This way we could for example have terribly fast ships, that would be kinky to fly. The idea of having to really fly the ship (not just trying to shoot everything else down) would be addictive.

 

Offline Nuke

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
if anyone has ever played frontier: elite 2 or frontier first encounters then you know what i mean. it makes you truly comprehend the theory of realativity.
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Offline Ace

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
There's relativity in Elite 2? Hrmmm?... I need to find a copy then...
Ace
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Offline Nuke

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
you can get a shareware copy from many elite fan sites. you can also get frontier: first encounters (aka elite 3) as well , they thought best to omit elite from the name. it was one of those games that was never released due to bugs and legal issues. it was pretty impressive, curved surfaces, colored lighting, 3d truster anis. its old as hell and was far ahead of its time. if i have time later i try and find you some links. both games do have a downside, the game is nearly impossible to play, not because of the phisics and such, but because thay made it too hard to earn credits.

both of which make an attempt to duplicate the entire galaxy, right down to the citys you get to launch from. unless you have an autopilot its a pain in the butt to slow down in time not to hit your destination and blow up.


ok, you can get shareware versions of both from the Elite Club
« Last Edit: July 30, 2002, 10:02:37 pm by 766 »
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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
If you want a modern game with newtonian physics you can look up I-War 1 and I-War 2. I don't think either I-War or Elite go into as much detail as you're talking about, however. Newtonian Physics certainly adds a degree of challenge and excitement that standard space-sim fare lacks, though FS' environments tend to be extremely busy as it is. One of the downsides of fast ships with no arbitrary speed limits is that even the Colossus doesn't seem all that big when you fly past it at 5 km/s.

 

Offline aldo_14

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
I dunno...I've always preferred the immediacy of FS's physics compared to I-War 2.  the other thing is that everything in I-War looked small to me - even the 1 km+ superfreighters and carriers barely stood up to the Deimos in impressiveness.

i mean, it's a good idea... but not up to the point of replacing the current system completely. (IMO, obviously)

 

Offline Nuke

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
there is always the solution of having ships that are 100 or so kilometers long ;)
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Offline Fry_Day

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
Problems would arouse with fighters (Let's see you spot a 20m across object flying at 5km/sec), so gameplay would basically be ruined. I think that's also the reason the physics should remain as-is, unless you're doing a total conversion that was created to be played with newtonian physics. Of course, that would probably require changes to the AI code too

 

Offline aldo_14

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
I think the onlky thing I'd like to see would be a sort of powerslide... anyone who's played a rally game will no the joys of this - basically hit full speed, then yank the stick to the side - the momentum carries the craft sideways ala strafing.

I'm not sur ehow this would work, though.... maybe adding a sort of decreaser for momentum would be usefull - i.e. the ships speed drops exponentially in an axis, rather than instantly turning (so the ship can continue in, say, positive x for a few secs, curving if there's pressure in the y / z axes) - I know the shivan ships do have slide attributes that can be accessed with the numpad or sommat, but it's not massively convenient....

May be neat, but it'd probably be a ***** to implement, and possibly not worth the effort.  Would be cool to charge head on with a  Ravana and twist, firing along the side, though. :)

 

Offline Hudzy

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
I think the onlky thing I'd like to see would be a sort of powerslide... anyone who's played a rally game will no the joys of this - basically hit full speed, then yank the stick to the side - the momentum carries the craft sideways ala strafing.


Tachyon did that, and yep, it's great fun. :nod:

 

Offline Sesquipedalian

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
Quote
Originally posted by Fry_Day
Problems would arouse with fighters

a-rouse (uh rouz')  v.
              v.t.
                  1.  to stir to action or strong response;
                       excite: to arouse a crowd; to arouse
                       suspicion.
                  2.  to stimulate sexually.
                  3.  to awaken; wake up.
              v.i.
                  4.  to become awake or aroused.

I don't think I'd ever want to encounter an aroused Shivan. :lol:
Sesqu... Sesqui... what?
Sesquipedalian, the best word in the English language.

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Offline Nuke

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rcs thrusters, thrust vectoring, and phisics
you can do a power slide by setting high damp factors in the ships tbl. i used it for the seker, its a cool effect. actually by jacking up damp factors and velocitys freespace seems alot like tachyon. i didnt like tachyon's slide control though, it would have been better id you had to hit your burner, then cut the throttle and turn hard. the slide key made that all too easy. my problem with freespace physics is that it seems as if you are flying through an atmosphere.

the thing about flying is space is that you burn fuel for every change in direction you make. when nasa flys around up there every thruster burn the shuttle makes is calculated months before the launch. in space you cannot afford to waste fuel.

with current space technology reaction control thrusters (im not sure if thats actual terminology of something i heard on star trek) and vectored thrust to get your ship to change direction. you can also rotate using kinetic wheels (simply a flywheel hooked up to an electric motor) that vary their speed to cause changes in rotationan velocity (satilites use theese). im not saying that freespace should use fuel tracking, but i am saying that all sources of movement should be taken into account when determining how ships move.

thrust vectoring's effect or turning is dependant on how much throttle is given to the engines, more engine power = faster turning (star lancer). rcs thrusters are usualy dependant and kinetic wheels are always dependant from the main engines and give constant turning rates, kinetic wheels having a lesser effect but are more eficient. some rcs thrusters draw exaust from the main engine and work in the same way as thrust vectoring.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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