[Borealis]

[color=sky blue]New Orleans, Louisiana, USA.

Everything you heard about the southeastern US is true.  

Especially the part about it being a third world country.[/color]  

[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by Sandwich
Hpw many nights have you fallen asleep to the sounds of heavy machine-gun fire, Hellfire rocket launches, and a tank round or two every once in a while?[/B]

Originally posted by vyper
Man you [Israeli] guys really need a nuke or two! That'll cure all your worres!

Lol, vyper, don't think they haven't considered it. Israel already has nukes.

I think Israel wouldn't drop a nuke on the Palestinians because they'd be a little worried about the fallout (radioactive, not political). The West Bank is right next door, after all.

And it's not like the Israelis have the luxury of worrying about political consequences when the existence of their nation is at stake. Thank God the Israelis had the foresight to bomb that Iraqi nuclear power plant back in the 1980s...otherwise, Saddam would have nukes now. The Gulf War would have turned out very differently if Saddam had the Bomb then...

And considering how the Palestinians danced in the streets on 9/11, they can all go to hell (or radioactive oblivion, whichever) for all I care....

[CODEDOG ND]

Originally posted by Su-tehp




Sometimes, I think there are still Southerners who are still pissed that Brown v. Board of Education became national law, let alone still be pissed about the Confederacy losing the Civil War...

Partly, but it was mainly the fact thier own country men would try to come into their homes and farms and change their way of living.  Even though slavery is unconstitional, most Southerns couldn't afford slaves and many didn't agree with owning people.  And immgrant workers paying them 1/10 to work in some factory isn't much better than slavery anyways.  I am from "The South" and most southerns do have a problem with being classified as the dumb redneck.  Plus in today's time some of the things that makes those eleven states different from the rest are being classified as horrid symbols.  (i.e. Confederate Flag)  Much of the South has forgotten the Civil War(except for a few Neo-Naiz's, and some of the white supremists groups like the Klu Klux Klan).  However, it does sadden me when you see more I Love NYC shirts in a Texas department store and fewer and fewer still carry a Confederate Flag(Mainly because it has been potrayed as being "redneckish").

[Knight Templar]

am i the only dude form kali?


well actually i think i am.

Santa Rosa, Cali  .... 60 miles north of San Fran (no i am not gay )

[Pera]

Finland, Behind-the-gods-back-town.

[Corsair]

a box of matzah, my kitchen table, my house, Connecticut, USA

Originally posted by Su-tehp
Lol, vyper, don't think they haven't considered it.  Israel already has nukes.

Yeah, like in Sum of All Fears!:nervous:

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by penguin
I lived in the District of Columbia (Washington, DC to all of you non-USA-ians) for 9 years in my 20s, and would frequently wake up in the middle of the night to hear a 9mm semiautomatic emptying its magazine -- a sound you learn to recognize very easily.

Not exactly a heavy machine gun or a rocket launcher, but you still wouldn't want to get caught in the crossfire -- dead is still dead.

Most inner cities in the US are war zones.  You just don't see it as much on the national news since it's just poor people killing other poor people.  Not as glamorous as a white middle-class kid from a suburb being kidnapped.

BTW: No offense, Sandwich; I can't imagine what you must go through on a daily basis

Hmmmm... let's see if I can adequately express what I want to say in response to this:

On average, walking the streets of any given "inner city" in the US is by far more dangerous than pretty much anywhere here in Israel. The reason mainly being that here, I'd reckon around 10-15% of the adult population carries firearms on their person, whether it be a Glock, Uzi or M-16. Plus, there are soldiers everywhere, often en-route to and from home on leave, but on weekend leave in Israel you still take your gun home.

So on a day-to-day basis, I feel much safer here than I do visiting the US. (which I do from time to time). I mean, come on! In the US, anyone can just meander into the local mall with an MP5 under their vest, a few fragmentation grenades on their belt, and a pack full of high-explosives - who's gonna check them? And pardon me, but the so-called "airline/airport security"?? Laughable. Absolutely ridiculous.

Anyways, before I drag this into a full-blown rant, lemme say that my daily life is quite peaceful. Wake up, eat, hop on a bus into town or the mall, get my bag and person checked going into the mall or into a dept. store in town, buy a few things, meet w/ friends for lunch at a coffee shop (where I get my bag and person checked again), head to the movie theater, get my bag and person checked upon entering the mall, and again before the ticket counter of the theater, sit down to watch a movie, switch seats because the stock of the M16 the person sitting next to me was carrying was digging into my ribs, watch a city in the US get nuked (Sum of All Fears), hop on another bus to go back home, listen to news reports about how there are strong indications that there will be terrorist attacks on Jewish settlements in Judea, Samaria and Gaza during Yom Kippur, surf HLP for 4 hours, go to bed.

Originally posted by Borealis
[color=sky blue]New Orleans, Louisiana, USA.

Everything you heard about the southeastern US is true.  

Especially the part about it being a third world country.[/color]

Borealis! Welcome back from wherever you've disappeared to in the last few weeks or so.

Originally posted by Su-tehp
Lol, vyper, don't think they haven't considered it. Israel already has nukes.

I think Israel wouldn't drop a nuke on the Palestinians because they'd be a little worried about the fallout (radioactive, not political). The West Bank is right next door, after all.

And it's not like the Israelis have the luxury of worrying about political consequences when the existence of their nation is at stake. Thank God the Israelis had the foresight to bomb that Iraqi nuclear power plant back in the 1980s...otherwise, Saddam would have nukes now. The Gulf War would have turned out very differently if Saddam had the Bomb then...

And considering how the Palestinians danced in the streets on 9/11, they can all go to hell (or radioactive oblivion, whichever) for all I care....

Why the heck would we drop nukes on our own land??

And Israel's hands are tied far tighter than most of the world knows. Heck, when I was in Jenin rounding up terrorists and blowing up explosives labs, the world was threatning us with sanctions and embargoes if we didn't get the hell out of there, yesterday! I mean, who the hell are they to tell us that we can't defend ourselves!?!

I live in Gilo, Jerusalem's southern-most neighborhood. We had mortars falling around here before the army "invaded" Beit-Jala all those months ago, but the world screamed at us for "invading" back then, too! I'd like to see what the heck the world would say if Washington DC, London or Paris was getting mortared left and right! And note that mortars have a max range of approx. 0.5-4 kilomteres, depending on the diameter.

[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by Su-tehp
Lol, vyper, don't think they haven't considered it. Israel already has nukes.

I think Israel wouldn't drop a nuke on the Palestinians because they'd be a little worried about the fallout (radioactive, not political). The West Bank is right next door, after all.

Originally posted by Sandwich
Why the heck would we drop nukes on our own land??

Exactly. I was trying to make a joke, but Sandwich is right, it fell flat. No one would be stupid enough to detonate a nuke on their own land (well, unless they were conducting weapons test, like the US and USSR did during the Cold War, but that's another story) and the Israelis are FAR from stupid. Considering how long Israel has survived with such hostile neighbors through, what, FIVE wars in fifty years, the cleverness and bravery of Israel is beyond any doubt.

Originally posted by Sandwich
And Israel's hands are tied far tighter than most of the world knows. Heck, when I was in Jenin rounding up terrorists and blowing up explosives labs, the world was threatning us with sanctions and embargoes if we didn't get the hell out of there, yesterday! I mean, who the hell are they to tell us that we can't defend ourselves!?!

I live in Gilo, Jerusalem's southern-most neighborhood. We had mortars falling around here before the army "invaded" Beit-Jala all those months ago, but the world screamed at us for "invading" back then, too! I'd like to see what the heck the world would say if Washington DC, London or Paris was getting mortared left and right! And note that mortars have a max range of approx. 0.5-4 kilomteres, depending on the diameter.

Yeah, ever since the Second Intifada began, I've been extraordinarily pissed at the Palestinians, especially that treacherous worm, Arafat. And Europe's double-standard attitude towards Israel just plain sickens me.

I'm not exactly Sharon's biggest fan, but at least he's clamping down on the Palestinian terrorists and has greatly reduced the suicide bombings. When was the last one? Two months ago in July? It wasn't that long ago when suicide bombings were happening almost EVERY DAY in Israel.

Hell, yeah, Israel can and should do whatever is necessary to defend itself. If the Palestinians want their own state, they should take a page out of Martin Luther King's book and use passive, nonviolent resistance. If the Palestinians keep using terrorist tatcics, no one, especially in US or Israel, is going to come to their aid and they'll never get their own state, nor will they deserve one.

Hell, I've even had days where I was so pissed at the Palestinian militants that I thought "transferring" all the Palestinians to Jordan was a GOOD idea and never mind the "ethnic cleansing" paralells to Kosovo and Milosevic...

[an0n]

Originally posted by Borealis
[color=sky blue]New Orleans, Louisiana, USA.

Everything you heard about the southeastern US is true.  

Especially the part about it being a third world country.[/color]  

Cool. HLP's only (sane) (human) female has returned.

*hides from Tiara and Carl*

[Kamikaze]

Originally posted by an0n

Cool. HLP's only (sane) (human) female has returned.

*hides from Tiara and Carl*

I think you're forgetting the other female, Delphinia... and she's an admin

[an0n]

Damn you. Stop pointing out the flaws in my mockery of Tiara.

[Stryke 9]

Originally posted by Su-tehp
If the Palestinians want their own state, they should take a page out of Martin Luther King's book and use passive, nonviolent resistance.  

Uh huh. Please, tell me how we'd even know about them, much less give a ****, if they used "passive resistance". Passive resistance only works if you're a serious threat, and give the impression of holding back for diplomacy- MLK's "passive resistance" woulda been sitting down for a massacre, nothing more, if the black militants weren't quite so scary. Even Ghandi, whose nation was given up more as an expendable loss during a time of war than anything else, wouldn't have gotten what he wanted had not the Indians been on the verge of a far bloodier revolution.

You overestimate nations' capacity for compassion- Israel isn't particularly scared of the Palestinians, at least not enough to really start making concessions. And there's no way in hell, for the next hundred years or so, that the Israeli or Palestinian masses will ever see the other side as good for anything but wholesale slaughter- this might not be true for individuals, but it's the way the nation works. Palestinian sits down in front of an Israeli bulldozer, you've got a Palestinian pancake. Palestinian takes to the roof with a Kalashnikov 47, at least he has a chance to take one or two enemies with him.

Much more important, what is happening in Israel, what is happening in India/Pakistan, what is happening in the rest of the Middle East, is NOT comparable to the Civil Rights movement. Or any other rights movement. It is war. Undeclared, but then declarations are the luxury of the rich and pompous. And this sort of war is only going to get more common in the following years- already, the US army is doing all it can to adopt the tactics of the terrorists (with a bit less total war factored in, but that's because we don't need it). You want a soldier to sit down on the battleground.



I don't see how you can draw parallels, anyway. Beyond the very small connection that both types of conflict have race-based parties, there is no connection whatsoever.

[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by Su-tehp
If the Palestinians want their own state, they should take a page out of Martin Luther King's book and use passive, nonviolent resistance.

Originally posted by Stryke 9
Uh huh. Please, tell me how we'd even know about them, much less give a ****, if they used "passive resistance". Passive resistance only works if you're a serious threat, and give the impression of holding back for diplomacy- MLK's "passive resistance" woulda been sitting down for a massacre, nothing more, if the black militants weren't quite so scary. Even Ghandi, whose nation was given up more as an expendable loss during a time of war than anything else, wouldn't have gotten what he wanted had not the Indians been on the verge of a far bloodier revolution.

I think you're wrong, Stryke, at least about the Civil Rights movement here. America didn't give Blacks the right to vote and other equal rights because the Black Panthers threatened to plunge the USA into chaos. America gave Blacks equal rights because Martin Luther King and others like him kept pointing out that it was morally inconsistent to treat Blacks differently when they were just as American as Whites/Caucasians.

The threat of volence had nothing to do with King's success. King publicly wanted nothing to do with the Black Panthers. Even Malcolm X eventually agreed with King that non-violence was the only way to get Blacks equal rights.

Who remembers the Black Panthers today? I think you'll find that people are much more likely to remeber King and Malcolm X than anyone in the Black panthers, Stryke.

Originally posted by Stryke 9
You overestimate nations' capacity for compassion- Israel isn't particularly scared of the Palestinians, at least not enough to really start making concessions. And there's no way in hell, for the next hundred years or so, that the Israeli or Palestinian masses will ever see the other side as good for anything but wholesale slaughter- this might not be true for individuals, but it's the way the nation works. Palestinian sits down in front of an Israeli bulldozer, you've got a Palestinian pancake. Palestinian takes to the roof with a Kalashnikov 47, at least he has a chance to take one or two enemies with him.

Much more important, what is happening in Israel, what is happening in India/Pakistan, what is happening in the rest of the Middle East, is NOT comparable to the Civil Rights movement. Or any other rights movement.

I never said it was, Stryke. I merely tried to say that it could have been, had the Palestinians taken the route of non-violence. But they chose terrorism instead. That choice will doom them, if it hasn't already done so. They lost my sympathy, and the sympathy of many others in the United states as a result.

Originally posted by Stryke 9
I don't see how you can draw parallels, anyway. Beyond the very small connection that both types of conflict have race-based parties, there is no connection whatsoever.

I wasn't drawing paralells, Stryke. You misunderstood me. I never said that the two conflicts were parallel, again, I just said (or tried to say) that they could have been. But they're not, because the palestinians chose terrorism instead, so I don't treat the conflicts as parallel.

Originally posted by Stryke 9
You want a soldier to sit down on the battleground.

What does this even mean, anyway? That even after 9/11 I'd rather we Americans just bury our heads in the sand and try to ignore the terrorists and maybe they'll go away? I supported America's war on the Taliban and Al Queda and I danced the jig when I realized that the Taliban wasn't around to enforce their super-strict, ultra-fanatical dogma on the Afgani people anymore.

If you read my previous post on the Palestinians, it should be plain, even to you, that I can't stand the Palestinian militant terrorists. I fully support Israel's actions to defend itself. I would like to see the Israel-Palestine end, but not at the cost of Israel's existence. I thought I made that plain.

And when did I ever I wanted a soldier "to sit down on the battlefield"? I don't remember writing that in my post.

Wait, let me check, if I did write that...hang on...

Nope, nothing even remotely like the words "soldier", "sit down" OR "battlefield" is anywhere in my previous post.

Hmm, I wonder where Stryke got the idea that I was a pacifist? Especially after I said that Israel should do whatever is necessary to defend itself... I know that was in my post!:rolleyes:

[Galemp]

What happened to such a simple and straightforward thread?

[Stealth]

god knows

[Knight Templar]

where is she a admin?

[Whitelight]

here`s one... by the mistake on the lake, Erie Pa USA....

[Stryke 9]

Whee! Issues!

1. I know all about the Black Panthers. They're marginalized in public grade schools, as are all parts of history where people aren't standing around giving each other warm fuzzies all the time. But everyone I've met with any real education PERIOD knew about as much about the Black Panthers as they did about MLK's peace movement. It probably helps that a good deal of the greatest literature of the time was from Eldridge Cleaver and Malcolm X.

2. I was referring to your preaching nonviolence for the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. I gathered you weren't a pacifist from before, but you're applying a double standard here. The Palestinians and Israelis ARE fighting a war, and have been pretty much since the Israelis moved in- it took a short time to pick up at the VERY beginning, when the British were still putting Israel together, but it's been a war the whole time. Whoever chooses to fight or is impressed into one side or another is a "passive resistance" to be had there, any more than there was in Normandy in the fortysomethings, Iwo Jima whenever the hell, Vietnam in the fifties and sixties, etc. Passive resistance is strictly civil-conflict only. This isn't a civil conflict.

3. So the hundreds of years of slavery, segregation, lynchings, etc. were simply the result of an honest misunderstanding? It had just never occurred to whites that black people might be human? Even though there had been countless other people campaigning like MLK before (but no unified black militant movement before), pointing it out- it had to be televised to be understood or something? You've got an odd view of the world, man.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
What happened to such a simple and straightforward thread?

Sorry, my fault.

Originally posted by Stryke 9
The Palestinians and Israelis ARE fighting a war, and have been pretty much since the Israelis moved in- it took a short time to pick up at the VERY beginning, when the British were still putting Israel together, but it's been a war the whole time. Whoever chooses to fight or is impressed into one side or another is a "passive resistance" to be had there, any more than there was in Normandy in the fortysomethings, Iwo Jima whenever the hell, Vietnam in the fifties and sixties, etc. Passive resistance is strictly civil-conflict only. This isn't a civil conflict.

http://www.infoclick.org/

[Stryke 9]

[shrugs]

There are assholes on both sides. I could just as easily track down something like that for either side. It'd probably be about half true, and ignore a good number of important facts.

Anyway, yeah- basically supports what I said before. Been going on since the very beginning. I'd hesitate to assign blame (there's some political topics I can no longer manage to really give a **** about. They're so stupid I get too cynical to even pick a side), but the conflict IS a permanent one, and there's no good solution about it- either one side wipes the other out, or in 1500 years the culture changes so radically both sides stop to wonder what they have to gain out of fighting endlessly over some patch of semi-desert neither can conclusively secure in the first place.