Author Topic: Pics of some new TVWar ships  (Read 19446 times)

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Offline Itsara

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Pics of some new TVWar ships
Quote
Originally posted by Hades
Okay, here's the deal. If you can't MOD, you really shouldn't download teh stripped down version. It requires some downloads of the fs1port ( As it says in the thread ) and you may have to rename some .pcx files and make som temperary skins. Like I said, it's a stripped down version, so it has been stripped down. It is really buggy. Anyway, a full demo release will be around soon when our hosting gets underway, and I can upload the files. Which are pretty big.

So you are going to release the ships all fixed up, meaning not in the stripped down version, sometime in the future?

 

Offline Solatar

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Itsara, yes, this MOD will be able to be downloaded in the future.
 
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Quote
In summary, CODEDOG ND would have preferred you to link to screenshots in JPG format.


Oh well. It was a little easier to just save them as .bmp files. Graphics aren't a problem in this instance, because I didn't lose much quality, but in most cases, I agree. JPG ( Or anything but a Windows format ) is better.

 

Offline Goober5000

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I've got an idea - howabout making another destroyer class?  There's a rather large gap between the Orion (2.1 km) and the next biggest size, the Repulse (350 m).  Why not make a smaller destroyer?  I suggest the GTD Reliant (~1 km), an impressive vessel in its own right until the Orion comes along and the entire GTA goes


Awakenings mentions a GTD Reliant class, which was in service for at least the first half of the T-V war.  I've made use of some of this information in my campaign; one of my tech room files says that the GTD Reliant class was half the size of an Orion, that the GTD Goliath destroyed in 2323 was a Reliant class destroyer, and that the GTD Orion class didn't show up until 2326.

An interesting series of missions would be to implement the failed Operation Midway (referred to in Awakenings) in 2328 where the GTA attempts to annhilate Vasuda but instead loses its entire invasion fleet in the Antares-Vasuda subspace corridor.  Afterwards the GTA is in desperate straits, having lost a huge quantity of fleet assets and three brand new Orions, and has to adopt some cool strategery to avoid utter defeat.

None of this is canon, of course, but I like the continuity of campaigns matching up whenever possible.  Take from the suggestions as you will. ;)

EDIT: Battle of Midway should be Operation Midway
« Last Edit: October 15, 2002, 08:56:04 pm by 561 »

 

Offline Eishtmo

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Before I toss in my opinion, I'm in no way responsible for the names of the ships (except the Sagitarius) or any of the models these two are doing for the pre-Great War campaigns and such.  There, now that that's out of the way:

JUST CALL IT A FREAKIN BATTLESHIP!

Thank you.
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Offline Solatar

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Okay, here's problem number one with having an battleship. GTBs. Galactic Terran Bull Shit.

Number two, shouldn't battleships be extremely large? Anyway, how about a battlecruiser? GTBc might be good, but I don't know. I think GTCv would be good, as I like the idea of a corvette.

 

Online Galemp

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Quote
Originally posted by Eishtmo

JUST CALL IT A FREAKIN BATTLESHIP!
 


But that would make the designation GTBs...
:lol: sorry.
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Offline CODEDOG ND

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lol, who cares if it wasn't in fs1!  Most of the ships in the galaxy probably weren't show in fs1.
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Offline Thor

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Thank you codedog.

Yes it is GTBc.

Esh, Why Sagittarius, please explain in more detail your thinking, as IMHO, it is a bad name for a ship class.  :confused:

Quote
An interesting series of missions would be to implement the failed Battle of Midway (referred to in Awakenings) in 2328 where the GTA attempts to annhilate Vasuda but instead loses its entire invasion fleet in the Antares-Vasuda subspace corridor. Afterwards the GTA is in desperate straits, having lost a huge quantity of fleet assets and three brand new Orions, and has to adopt some cool strategery to avoid utter defeat.


That could be done, easily actually.
The rest of it strays to far from know canon, I think, but it will be placed in consideration.  What it could just be is a simple name change to the GTBc Sovereign.  If Hades and Esh would just go to the bloody internal forum, they'd see the wonderful guide i whipped up.

The issue on the corvette is that it was already in service when the UW started.  So we'll just retire the ship before FS1.  The Vasudan won't have a corvette, and neither will the GTVA untill the Deimos.  Use logic, Why the heck wouldn't there be a corvette for 300 years?  That is the best we can do
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Online Galemp

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Quote
Originally posted by Thor
Why the heck wouldn't there be a corvette for 300 years?  


Hmmm....
Cruisers filled their role as escort and patrol craft, destroyers were more like carriers and mobile bases. Corvettes in the T-V War era would be nothing more than large cruisers, except more expensive and slightly better armed. That's why the Leviathan was designed, to have a heavier cruiser class when a Fenris just isn't enough.
Once beam cannons were designed, it became necessary to have a mobile multi-role ship. Cruisers were too small, and destroyers were too expensive and had unnessecary fighterbays. The corvette was designed as a replacement for the role of cruiser in the great war, with new cruiser classes holding light anti-fighter weaponry and acting as support for larger ships.

The bottom line? If it has a fighterbay, call it a destroyer. If it doesn't, call it a cruiser. Intermediate classes like corvettes and frigates should crop up only when there is more varied weaponry, like beams, and corvettes take over the former role of the cruisers and cruisers become anti-fighter platforms.
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Offline Goober5000

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Placed in consideration = cool. :yes: :D

(D'oh - Battle of Midway should be Operation Midway...)

I just read Eishtmo's timeline concept and it looks like the events in 2327 could match up pretty well with what Awakenings describes as Operation Midway:

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On or about April 16, 2128 [sic - should be 2328], a huge GTA invasion fleet entered the Antares-Vasuda jump node. The fleet, consisting of fourteen GTC Fenris class cruisers, nine GTD Reliant class destroyers, and three GTD Orion class destroyers [two of which were the Iowa and the Moscow], disappeared moments after entering subspace. At the Vasudan end of the node, one ship, the GTC Hornbeck, emerged.

The disappearance of the fleet stuck the GTA in a bind. The loss of the fleet caused our forces to cancel Operation Midway (the invasion of the Vasuda system) and almost caused the Terrans to lose the T-V war.

If we set this as simultaneous with the Battle of Talnia, we have a very nice intersection of four campaigns. :D

Here is the timeline we absolutely know for sure from canon:
Pre-2321: Fenris, Faustus, Elysium, Ra ship classes exist
Pre-2323: Anubis class developed, Ankhs begin to phase out
Pre-2333: Amun class developed
Somewhere in 2321-2322: First run of Leviathan class begun

2321: Terran-Vasudan War starts
2323: Hermes escape pods introduced; GTD Goliath (unknown class destroyer) destroyed at Rexias 4 by kamikaze Anubises; first use of Hermes escape pods
2333: Typhon class destroyer introduced; Vega Engagement leads to destruction of GTD Eisenhower (unknown class destroyer) and much of the 4th Fleet
2335: End of T-V War

And that's it - the rest of the (scant) information is wildly flexible and pretty much acceptable to put at any time during the war.


As far as Reliant vs. Orion classes, look at the Orion and the Typhon.  They're about equally matched, yet the Typhon was only brought out in 2333.  Even taking into account that Vasudans design and introduce ships slower than Terrans (due to Terrans' intelligence and versatility - c.f. tech database) I can't imagine that the Orion was in service for the entire T-V war...it causes too much imbalance in favor of the GTA.

So this is why a smaller Terran destroyer class makes sense.  The smaller destroyer (suppose it's the Reliant) is a logical step in size between the Repulse and Orion classes, and this way we can say that the Orion was developed in the middle of the war (before 2328, according to Awakenings) and the Reliant was phased out by the end of the war.  In this case, the GTD Goliath was almost certainly a Reliant (unless there was yet another destroyer class - unlikely), and the GTD Eisenhower was probably an Orion.

Whew. :cool: Creative conjecture is cool.  (So is alliteration. :p)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2002, 10:42:42 pm by 561 »

 

Offline Knight Templar

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where is this "awakeinings" ?

:D


Before my time heh .. have to try it someday
« Last Edit: October 15, 2002, 11:15:21 pm by 675 »
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Offline Goober5000

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One of the earliest user-made campaigns for FS1.  Quite nicely done, too.  Looky looky here.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Wow, Knight Templar, that was quite an odd experience.  I refreshed the thread three times, and each time I did, I found you had edited the post into something different. :lol:

It was before my time, too, but archives are A-1 SUPAR!

 

Offline Knight Templar

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No comment
« Last Edit: October 15, 2002, 11:47:31 pm by 675 »
Copyright ©1976, 2003, KT Enterprises. All rights reserved

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Offline Solatar

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:wtf:

 

Offline Goober5000

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Sorry for the OT-ness. :(

Hades, have a look back at the last post on page 2 (my ramblings on part of the history of the T-V war, which got lost in the shuffle).  Thoughts?  Critiques?

 

Offline Thor

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Well, I'm not convinced about the Repulse, but we'll let Hades make a call on that.

Ok, I read your ramblings Goober.  I like except that we have a history of the Destroyer that works very well, and is very plausible.  As for the size difference, the GTBc Sovereign fills up that void nicely.  The GTD Reliant is not needed, and the GTD Goliath would be an Orion

here is the history Esh wrote on the Terran/Vasudan Destroyers

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A Probable History of the Destroyer

Introduction

   They are among the biggest vessels ever designed for a Space Sim, and the most impressive.  Rarely less than two kilometers long, they inspire pride, admiration, and fear.  We all have our favorite, from the mighty Orion, to the powerful Hatshepsut, to the demonic Lucifer.  And still others prefer their own designs, some more powerful or beautiful than even the greatest canon ship.  Yet, they present mysteries and force us to ask questions.  How are they built?  What are their crews like?  How many are there?  Why are they so big?  None of these questions are answered in the canon we have to work with, but there are clues.
   And that what this is about.  I will attempt, through a combination of canon, my own theories, and a bit of speculation and deduction, to write out the history of the destroyer up through the original Freespace.  Beyond that will take more time and effort, but this should suffice.  Since much of this is literally made up on the spot, this should not be taken as potential canon, but instead as a way to answer some of those questions.  So I will now tell the tale of the destroyer class vessel, and with it, the story of the pre-Great War Freespace universe, for the story of the destroyer is the story of Freespace.

Orion:  The First Destroyer

   For this I have decided to, for the time being, ignore the Shivans.  We know so little about them that it simply isn’t practical.  However, we know quite a bit about the Terrans, and can speculate with some accuracy about the Vasudans, especially their interactions.  So I will start the story here, and a bunch of speculation.

   The first destroyer class vessel was nothing like what we know today.  In fact, destroyers probably haven’t been around for nearly as long as we suspect.  To begin, though, we must examine the ships that came before, for which the only evidence we have is our own imagination.  So allow me some leeway here.
   The final war of a series known as the Unification Wars ended in 2316, and with it the GTA as we have come to know it was formed.  A united Terran military force to help keep the various alliance members in line and protect all from pirates was formed, and former enemies now became shipmates and wingmen.  The transition would not be easy, and until the 14-Year War some five years later would it be complete.
   But the fleets now united under GTA command were each enormous.  The biggest three fleets, from the old Terran Alliance, Lunar Republic and Jovian Alliance, had nearly a thousand ships each, creating a logistical, and financial nightmare.  As the various Admirals of the united fleet met for the first time in one of the new Arcadia stations high above Earth, their most pressing matter was to try to figure out how to manage such an unmanageable fleet.  Though many ideas were purposed, and some used, the one we’ll be concerned about is the decision to retire one of the ship classes that all but dominated the fleet:  the Leo battleship.
   In an age before advanced anti-capital ship bombs had been developed, a whole battleship was needed to fight off their equivalents, and protect the fleet.  This was a role that, in 2301, the Leo was designed for.  But time had finally come knocking, and the ship was no longer up to standards.  Their reactors were old, inefficient, and falling apart.  The weapons weren’t on the same technological level as the newer ship in the fleet, the Fenris cruiser.  So the decision was handed down to replace the Leo with a more modern battleship.
   The project was eventually turned over to the Han-Ronald Corporation, the famed creators of the Fenris cruiser.  Within their employ was a genius, Robert Williams.  Williams had been the key designer of the Fenris as well as a multitude of impressive transports including the Elysium, a transport that would serve far into the future.  He was an expert at making designs that could be easily upgraded with the latest technology.  So good was he that the Fenris and the later Leviathan would serve far beyond their predicted lifetimes.
   The problem for Williams, of course, was to make a much larger, more powerful warship than a simple cruiser.  After careful study of the tactics and theories regarding the use of such ships he decided that replacing the Leo was not the answer.  Instead, he decided that both the Leo and its carrier companion, the Sagittarius, could, and should, be replaced by one ship that could do both.  The leadership of the GTA liked the idea, and Williams was given the green light to try.  The result would change battlefield tactics forever.  But first, he had to fail.
   It took him nearly five months to design the new class of ship, doing most of the work by himself.  His blood, sweat and tears went into the design, and he named it the Orion Destroyer.  But this isn’t the destroyer we have all come to know and love.  In fact, many that would later study this ship would call it the Pocket Orion, a name that fits it far better than any other I could come up with.  The PO (easier to write don’t you think) was little more than a third of the size of our Orion, about 750-800 meters long.  Though small, the ship was quite advanced supporting the ability to literally replace every part short of the hull with the most advanced technology, something that would carry over to our Orion.  It was designed to combine the capital ship smacking power of the Leo with the swarming fighter capacity of the Sagittarius.
   The problem, however, was that it couldn’t do either job very well.  Primitive reactors and low fighter compliments didn’t allow it to accomplish missions as well as the pairing of the Sagittarius and Leo through computer simulations.  The design was still brilliant, but failed in too many areas.  The first destroyer was rejected, not even a prototype was built.  And Robert Williams was crushed.  Many believed that he was washed up at this point, the spark gone.  History would prove them wrong.
   He returned to the task he had begun, and tried to fix the problems with the PO.  Though its unclear how the final design for the Orion came to him, but according to his own biography, Williams was bored one night and simply ordered the computer to simply upscale the ship.  He liked the idea, and called in everyone he knew, because this was a project that would need more than just him to complete it.  It took two months, and the Orion as we know it was born of the genius of every Terran ship designer alive.
   The Orion we know today faced only one hurdle to approval, cost.  The ship was frighteningly expensive, even to the very deep pockets of the GTA.  In the short term, it was decided that the Orion would be little more than a figurehead, and aside from a prototype, the GTD Orion, only four would be initially ordered, and due to their size, Han-Roland couldn’t do the job.  Instead, the Orions would be built by the newly formed Department of Starship Management (DoSM), an office designed specifically to build the Orion.  As the years would go by, every warship would pass through DoSM, including the Hecate and Aeolus.  But as a symbol of their pride, the insignia that hangs on the main office door still has a picture of an Orion under construction.
   GTD Orion would come off the assembly lines in July of 2319, some six months before the Vasudans were encountered.  This triggered a push on construction, completing the second Orion, GTD Gaia, by July of the next year.  Gaia and Orion were in functional service just as the 14-Year War began.  The Gaia would be the first Orion in combat, defending Earth from a Vasudan raiding party very early in the war.  So successful was it, that the Gaia would become the defender of Earth, and the command ship of the 1st Terran Fleet.  Following the raid, the remaining four came out of the Io shipyards, with orders for many more to follow.  By the 2328, all of the old Leos had been either destroyed or retired, and only a handful of Sagittarius’ remained in limited service.  The Orion would serve as the biggest ship in the combined Terran and Vasudan fleets until 2349, when the Hatshepsut (or Hecate, unsure on this issue) was introduced.  Even as new technology was developed, the Orion would be updated, replacing reactors, weapons, sensors, fighter bays, nearly everything, and this ability was used to stuff the Bastion and Nereid with meson warheads and seal the nodes to Capella.
   A bust of Williams was placed outside the offices of DoSM after his death in 2333.  His last design, the Hippocrates, wouldn’t be built until after the Great War.  In his honor, one was named after him, but was destroyed in a Hammer of Light raid in 2338.  There are no plans to name another one after him.

The Vasudan Destroyers

   The raid on Earth in late 2321 changed the Vasudans greatly.  After training for years to fight hoards of religious fanatics, they couldn’t get over the accuracy, and power of GTA weapons.  But what scared them more than anything was the rumor of a super ship that had dished out most of the damage.  The Gaia shook PVN command to core, and they quickly scrambled to meet the new challenge.  In less than six months, the Vasudans produced their first destroyer, the PVD Thanatos.  Unfortunately for the Vasudans, they had made the same mistake Williams had made nearly four years earlier, the Thanatos was simply to small to be very effective.
   Though the Thanatos was an unmediated disaster, it showed the GTA the speed with which this new enemy could adjust their tactics.  The Vasudans cranked out nearly fifty Thanatos’ in less than four years, swamping the battlefield with them.  Despite their design, however, they were eventually regulated to the classic battleship role, leaving the small and ineffective fighter bays to be turned in to an easily destroyable reactor housing.  Eventually, the Thanatos would vanish from the battlefield, the last one going down in some time in 2329.
   But those four years of mass-producing Thanatos’ had not been wasted.  Careful study of the Orion had revealed the flaws in the design, and a new destroyer, the Savior class, was developed.  In 2326, the first Savior’s came off the line.  They were one and a half kilometers long, and capable of taking on an Orion at point blank range.  But their true weakness was soon exposed.  In an attempt to emulate some of the design decisions of the Orion, they placed the Saviors reactor near the outer hull without realizing that it was there to be easily removed in case of failure or need for replacement..  Of course, they weren’t stupid and quickly placed a turret on the spot to protect the reactor.  But instead of protecting it, they simply turned it into a target.  By the end of the cease-fire of 2328, the GTA began exploiting the poor design decision, and sending Saviors down in droves.
   Despite the horrendous losses of Saviors, the Vasudans continued to produce them until 2333, when the first Typhon came off the line.  Eventually, the remaining Saviors were either destroyed or recycled, and the Typhon became the frontline destroyer for the Vasudan Empire.  The new design made the Terrans laugh, until the Eisenhower and the 4th fleet fell at the hands of a fleet led by one.  The reason it finally worked, as opposed to the old Saviors, was that it was based on Vasudan design philosophy instead of Terran.  This led to the reactor was buried deep in the hull to protect it.  Despite this, GTA planners tried to blast the turrets off of Typhons hoping to hit the reactor, thus the reason why GTA info on the ship indicated that the turret armor was weaker than expected.
   The Typhon would serve a long and proud history, but by placing the reactor deep in the hull, the new weapons of the fleet doomed many to death.  As time would pass, the new Hatshepsut class leaned even farther toward their own design ideas and away from the Orion.  But at the same time, the general destroyer concept changed as well.  While the Hatshepsut became more like the battleship of old, the Hecate, then new Terran destroyer, became more like a carrier.  Considering this trend, eventually the old division between carrier and battleship will make a comeback, and the reign of the destroyer as queen of the fleet will fade once again into history.
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Offline Killfrenzy

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Couldn't oyu have just linked to that? Ouch.....
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Offline Goober5000

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Wow, that's an excellent history. :yes: It'll even work well with what I was thinking for my own back story - all I need to do is change the date the Orion was commissioned. :cool:

I only see two loose ends.  First, why would the GTA want to construct five ships as massive as the Orion when the Unification War had ended and there were no enemies in sight?  I presumed that only a threat as serious as the Vasudans would lead the GTA to develop the Orion.  Thus the Orion being built only after the T-V war had dragged on for at least a year.

Second (and less serious), now we're left with a reference to a ship class (the Reliant) that never existed.  But this is easily taken care of if (as you, Thor, said might be possible) the GTBc Sovereign could be renamed.

 

Offline Solatar

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Why rename the Soveriegn? I like that name. Maybe we could rename it GTD, as it says that the first destroyers weren't very big. Anyway, I agree, the Orion wasn't constructed until the TVWar had commenced for at least a year, and it was contsructed after the first Leviathan. Also, I would think that the Sol factions would be: Terra, Mars, and Io. Maybe Luna, but I think that the moon would be part of Terra.

Okay, I do like the idea of the Vasudans having some failed attempts at destroyers. This is a problem because nobody wants to make Vasudans.

Also, right now, I am converting Cardinal Spear to fit the MOD. It will not have the planets, because they take up table space, make the download bigger, and don't look that great. I will try to release it, because it won't need that much new stuff. It will feature the new GTF Angel model, and I'll try to find a suitable Gorgan.