[Sesquipedalian]

Hallelujah!  Thank God for DTP.  

[EdrickV]

With a little luck, I think we may be able to get the Robotech MOD's changes (transforming ships via in game POF swapping) merged into the main fs2_open tree so that a seperate exe isn't needed. (The RT MOD's exe was started using the original code so doesn't have all the enhancements that fs2_open has/will have.) The idea we're working on is to have a seperate table that, if present, will specify what ships can transform, how they can transform, and what ship table entries go with each mode.

Our original method used ships with fake "turrets" that when destroyed would "transform" the ship because the turret submodel would be replaced with the destroyed turret submodel. However, with the original exe you couldn't restore the turret submodel. That's where we first got fiddling with the code. (Ronin more then me since he has the better tools.)

Has anyone checked to see if this mod support change will let the game load player info from the mod directory?

As far as easy use of MODs, we could probably make a replacement launcher that would let you chose whether to run FS2 with a particular mod (from a list) or without any mods. And have options for running the original FS2 and other stuff.

[DTP]

Originally posted by EdrickV
With a little luck, I think we may be able to get the Robotech MOD's changes (transforming ships via in game POF swapping) merged into the main fs2_open tree so that a seperate exe isn't needed. (The RT MOD's exe was started using the original code so doesn't have all the enhancements that fs2_open has/will have.) The idea we're working on is to have a seperate table that, if present, will specify what ships can transform, how they can transform, and what ship table entries go with each mode.

Our original method used ships with fake "turrets" that when destroyed would "transform" the ship because the turret submodel would be replaced with the destroyed turret submodel. However, with the original exe you couldn't restore the turret submodel. That's where we first got fiddling with the code. (Ronin more then me since he has the better tools.)

Has anyone checked to see if this mod support change will let the game load player info from the mod directory?

As far as easy use of MODs, we could probably make a replacement launcher that would let you chose whether to run FS2 with a particular mod (from a list) or without any mods. And have options for running the original FS2 and other stuff.

It is not committed yet, since I’m "fiddling" with the support for VP files so all u need to have in that directory is a VP file and of course the player directories, so I’m the only one who can answer this.

But player files, the so-called .plr files are read from the mod directory. thus avoiding the playing with the same pilot in several mods.

Also; mission files are also read from the mod directory.
again avoiding the having missions from another mod in the default fs2/data/mission directory.

Right know this is only developer friendly and not very user friendly, since only plain files in the mod directory is supported.

once i get "VP files in mod directory" support. This will be equally user-friendly, since people then can have several mods on their HD in the same directory all the time.

what I aim it to be is to be like the "Quake" method. Where it accepts all .pak files and other files in the mod directory.

Special for us is the player files. A thing Quake or Half-life didn’t have to bother with since it only supported 1 profile.

[DTP]

look in demo build thread.

VP files are now supported when being in the mod directory.

[Inquisitor]

Did I miss a committ email?

[EdrickV]

This will be a nice addition when it's comitted and released. I know people want MOD support for multiplayer and I did a little thinking ahead. One thing that will probably be needed, if and when we get MODs working in multiplayer, is a way to make sure that people are using the same MOD when trying to do multiplayer. With this MOD directory feature, it occured to me that we could define a simple text/table type file that would contain a version string identifying that MOD and what version of that MOD it is. Example:

$MODversion:     Robotech MOD 4.0

With MOD support, the MODders could just stick that version file in their VP and the program, when it knows it's using a MOD via the command line argument, could also read in that version string and, if and when they try to do LAN/Internet multiplayer the server could check the MOD version strings of all the clients to make sure they match.
Of course, getting the MOD support finished and actually getting FS2 to work right with MODs in multiplayer would come first. Someone would also have to code the changes in the net code so this may be a while off, but I think it's worth thinking about for the future.

"A man's reach should exceed his grasp."

[DTP]

Originally posted by DTP
look in demo build thread.

VP files are now supported when being in the mod directory.

correction, on my system, they are, not in CVS yet, still needs some tweaking

[Bobboau]

you know the more I look into it, the more I think, why can't we change the ship\weapon info indexes dynamicly to match those on a server and use the exsisting xfer cod eto transfere the needed files.
I have no idea how to do any multiplayer stuff though.
perhaps we should make a new thread discusing this

[EdrickV]

Would you really want to download TBP from within FS2? I'd rather download MODs using GetRight. Now if it was just a mission you needed, that would be different. D3 has an in-game mission downloader, but that is integrated with the level editor where you specify the location of a zip file to download which it will then uncompress. D3 levels with/without MODs aren't usually very big though. (Maybe up to 3/4 megs.)

[Bobboau]

most fs mods arn't too big, other than the TCs, think about it this way, if the host has altered tables then make those changes to all clients that join, if you need a new pof or pcx file see if the host has them and if so send them from the host to the client then have the client load them, this way people that want to play around in there new personal fighter in multiplayer can set up a server and people can join and play, maybe have a mod specifyer saying weather or not it is to be downloadable

[EdrickV]

Stuff like that would require some major changes. For starters, the game loads the ship table when the program first starts. So if you made any changes to it you would have to reload it after the game has already started. There would also be potential problems if client player A has a MOD that includes a ship type (let's call it the SF Wasp) and if the server has another SF Wasp that is not the same. (And that kind of thing could happen, I have a model I called the Wasp which would have been SF Wasp in game and so does the 158th. Though mine isn't likely to get finished, and if it does I wouldn't call it the Wasp anymore but I don't know all the ships in all the MODs.) Not to mention that, as I understand the way this exe will work, you can't really start it setup for a particular MOD unless you actually have that MOD. Also, how would the program know which files need to be replaced and with what? What happens if you happen to have a newer version of a MOD then the server does and it tries to replace your "old" ships with it's "newest" ones.
Having a program like FS2 try and download files like that is something of a security risk because you may not know exactly what the files on the server are, whether they're made right, or whether they're made badly or even designed to crash FS2. (Weirder things have happened.) I'm not saying this isn't possible or shouldn't be done, I'm saying it would take a lot of work to do and the result might not be worth it.

[Bobboau]

it wouldn't have to reload it, just swap the ship\weapon info index
if this gets integrated into this mod comand line thing then it could see if you have the mod directory if you don't then get the data you need from the server and any files you need (the ones in the servers mod folder), it might be good to have a mod table that would tell wich files are needed and what version

[EdrickV]

In order for a ship to be usable it's type info has to be in the global ship info structure. In the case of a new ship, you would have to load the table data for the ship. That means, at worst, downloading a ships.tbl to replace the one in use and reloading the entire thing. At best it means downloading the table data specific to that ship and trying to merge it with the existing ships.tbl and then reloading the modified table. (Possibly exceeding the ships.tbl filesize/ship number limits.) And this would all have to be done before the mission is loaded.

I wouldn't want FS2 downloading who knows what from someone else's server. That's like inviting malicious hackers in. (I've actually heard of a MUSHCode virus designed to disrupt/crash MUSH online text based games.) D3's method is better IMHO because it tells you where the zip file is hosted (often multiple sites) and you can chose not to download a file if it's not on a site you would trust. (And when I think of MODs I think of the big ones with multiple new ships and a campaign to go along with them. Like the ones here that I always hear about. T-V War, Robotech MOD, TBP, etc. I don't think of little single ship things like I recently saw in the VW archives.)

[Bobboau]

well you could just change the global info structure like I said, you wouldn't have to reload the table, as the thing is already in the proper structure in the server, you may need to reload models and textures, but you're going to have to do most of that anyway, this would also have the added effect of makeing cheating very hard (as in I have invulnerable super ship and you don't)

[EdrickV]

You can go ahead and try to code if if you think it'll be so easy, but I don't think it is as easy as you think from what I've seen of the code that actually loads the table data in the first place. Just as long as you make it optional because I wouldn't use it.

[Bobboau]

what you mean the stuff_int(&wip->something); stuff?
I don't know networking things but if you give me two weapon ifo structure arays I could swich them easily

[EdrickV]

I meant the whole thing. Code ideas don't mean anything unless someone actually turns theory into practice, and so far we're the only ones talking about your idea.

[DTP]

totally reworked mod support after a pleasant surprise

fs2_open, should, when i get it commited now have full florless modsupport.

but, having trouble with CVS, nothing new to me however,
figured it out in the past, and will figure it out again.