[BlackDove]

Originally posted by CP5670
Alright, you asked for it...



No, actually your great skill is a disadvantage in some ways here, because your are making complaints about the game that make no sense. See, you are used to being exactly the ultra pilot Alpha 1 that I talked about before, taking down destroyers in seconds, and in FS1 it was actually very easy for anyone to do this. Now in FS2 they changed around things to make it slightly harder; still very easy for you, but very slightly harder so that maybe where you could take down ten destroyers in a row in FS1, you can only blow up nine in FS2, and so you find a cause to complain. However, you are losing track of the fact that this whole thing is so absurdly beyond ridiciulous from a plausibility point of view. The GTA and GTVA did not win their battles because of individual ace fighter jocks (or perhaps they did in your case, but they were not intended to by the designers); successful operations were mostly carried out by attrition, by the numbers. There are other games where this single hero sort of thing did occur (e.g. Wing Commander), but that was what set the FS series so much higher above the others; the lack of emphasis on the player made far more sense.

So everyone in V told you how the game was intended to be played? If not then your opinion is based on a couple of hints here and there that don't really stand on their own, and make the world just a little bit more boring (but hey, you like maths )

Besides, I can quite see that around 9 out of 10 instances where you talked of being the best players around had absolutely nothing to do with your points then or even the subject matter, but it was simply to show off. (and I have seen exactly this kind of talk many, many times from others on the VBB, so it is quite familiar to me, although I did not expect it from my own mates) I don't want to be mean here, but you should know how you are coming across to others; nobody is asking you to apologize, but just try and clean it up from here on. Actually, the best pilot I personally have seen is probably Dark/Sleeper, and the best team is by far Drak. (although I have not played for a long while and things may have changed now)

a) Most of the time it was beating the subtopic of the subtopic, people apparently have problems accepting, just like I'm gonna do now, but not at one point was I showing off...how you may have seen it is another point, however that's not my problem

b) I don't want to be mean too, but it's none of your buisness nor pleasure to expect or don't expect stuff from me, your clan mate or not your clanmate

c) I actually still have not played against Sleeper/Dark on an equal ground. I know I lost heavily to him on his host when my skills were still crap, and then when I perfected my skills he lost heavily a couple of times on my host, however his excuse is that I used Erinyes and tempests on my host, so it's kind of a no-win situation.

d) Drak? QD and I won Europe by ourselves, no forfiets to come to the first place, nuff said (ah but then you can always say "THE GOOD ONES LEFT")

Exactly. See, I think you guys are used to arguing with other multiplayer people; in such a community, one gets respect by being a good player. But this is largely a mod community and that is simply not the way people gain popularity and respect around here.

Not at one point was I arguing over the fact that I need respect. Don't know where you got that from.

Originally posted by karajorma
Rather than make any assumptions I`d like to ask a few questions first.

How often do you play singleplayer FS1 or FS2 QD/BD?

Do you play other FS2 campaigns or do you find them too easy as well?

Played a couple, but I mean how hard can a bunch of AI's be? Aeois Affair was good, had me goin for a while tho =)

And FS2 single player.....played it about 40 times by now, I do it to kill time sometimes.....FS1 about 50 times...unlike playing FS2 to get to the fun missions, the FS1 as a whole is simply amazing, and I love to spend every mission with my full attention

Originally posted by diamondgeezer


Well good God man! Tell GTVA Command! If they'd have known about your skillz, they could have just deployed you and BD instead of all those warships, and we might never have lost Capella! Hell, we could have ownT the nebula by now...

Damn straight

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by BD

And FS2 single player.....played it about 40 times by now, I do it to kill time sometimes.....FS1 about 50 times...unlike playing FS2 to get to the fun missions, the FS1 as a whole is simply amazing, and I love to spend every mission with my full attention

oh puhleaase!!!
Forgive me if I haven't got the names memorized, but I have played FS1 only 8 times, because (again, no offence to anyone involved), I also have a life.

McCarthy. Why. Why. Why. There was no need for McCarthy. Nothing he did ever made any importance to the rest of the campaign. He, and the entire Avenger thingy was there just because V needed another two missions. One of the worst places of FS1 ever.

The mission with the Ramses and Taranis. I was stuck on that forever, because I didn't notice the order to ignore the Taranis and completely disable and disarmed it, then hoping faithfully for something to happen. Well, yeah.

FS1 DID make better use of the red-alert event, I give you that.

Also. Boring. Capship. Battles.

There is nothing more boring than to watch two capships shoot eachother with lasers. This is why I found Clash of the Titans 1 a ridicoulusly (sp?) simple mission. Only thing I had to do was shoot down the wings of Nephilims (still the greatest bomber of FS), and the bombs. Because the damage the lasers did was marginal.

BTW, the hardest missions in both games are IMO A failure to communicate in FS1, and Argonautica in FS2. Judging by the amount of time I was stuck in these missions on my first time.

[Stealth]

A Failure to Communicate has got to be one of the funnest/hardest missions in FS1... i agree with you!

[aldo_14]

The nebulas in FS2 are the single greatest atmosphere enhancer you can get in a space sim game.... I still love the mission where you have to escort 2 Tritons to the (?) Lysander.

[StratComm]

So everyone in V told you how the game was intended to be played? If not then your opinion is based on a couple of hints here and there that don't really stand on their own, and make the world just a little bit more boring (but hey, you like maths )

Actually they do, since you are rarely given the sole ability to determine the outcome of a mission.  And don't give me that crap about how you could do anything given the right weapons, the point is you can't save the Colossus (try it, even if you somehow pulled it off the mission simply will not end.  Thus it was not established as a remote possibility by the mission designers), remain as a cover operative in the NTF, or change the final outcome of the battle of Capella.  Alpha 1 simply cannot be a super hero, no matter how good you are.

Most of the time it was beating the subtopic of the subtopic, people apparently have problems accepting, just like I'm gonna do now, but not at one point was I showing off...how you may have seen it is another point, however that's not my problem

But that never was a subtopic for anyone else.  You are still arguing under the assumption that your skills make you an expert.  And I still do not, nor will I ever, agree to that premise.

I don't want to be mean too, but it's none of your buisness nor pleasure to expect or don't expect stuff from me, your clan mate or not your clanmate

But he isn't expecting anything from you.  He is appalled to find that you, a former squadmate, are such an ass.  Big difference.

And FS2 single player.....played it about 40 times by now, I do it to kill time sometimes.....FS1 about 50 times...unlike playing FS2 to get to the fun missions, the FS1 as a whole is simply amazing, and I love to spend every mission with my full attention

And you have expressed your opinion, which was the original point of this debate.  Thank you, no further comment was ever necessary.

originally posted by aldo_14

The nebulas in FS2 are the single greatest atmosphere enhancer you can get in a space sim game.... I still love the mission where you have to escort 2 Tritons to the (?) Lysander.

It was the Warspite

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by StratComm

It was the Warspite

[diamondgeezer]

*shows Aldo a yellow card*

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by StratComm


Actually they do, since you are rarely given the sole ability to determine the outcome of a mission.  And don't give me that crap about how you could do anything given the right weapons, the point is you can't save the Colossus (try it, even if you somehow pulled it off the mission simply will not end.  Thus it was not established as a remote possibility by the mission designers), remain as a cover operative in the NTF, or change the final outcome of the battle of Capella.  Alpha 1 simply cannot be a super hero, no matter how good you are.

And I managed to do that second time...lol, not my fault the game doesn't have enough scope....

But that never was a subtopic for anyone else.  You are still arguing under the assumption that your skills make you an expert.  And I still do not, nor will I ever, agree to that premise.

Then why, my dear buddy Strat, was I asked by four differeny companies to Beta Test games, by name, in 98 and 99?
Skills do count, then again I suppose you need some to be able to tell, even that...

But he isn't expecting anything from you.  He is appalled to find that you, a former squadmate, are such an ass.  Big difference.

We're not on here on behalf of the =SSC= if we were it wouldn't be like this at all, we would have probably bent over backwards for your stupidity, but...we're not, so unlucky for some.
oh...next part....stop putting words in other peoples mouths, bakayaro....
 

And you have expressed your opinion, which was the original point of this debate.  Thank you, no further comment was ever necessary.

This would be true, however, as I have already pointed out, our friend KT here turned it into a debate when he attacked our points, everyone else jumped on the bandwagon...so presto, we end up here.

However, we're meant to be on topic, unless it hasn't sunken in yet kiddo.

Hammer and the Anvil (Omega 1 'n' 2 vs a Typhon?)
That one has to be pretty hard...
Black Omega, and Reaching the Zenith (Yeah ok, I'm refering to multiplayer with those two..hehe...)
Clash of the titan's is very hard to do professionally, hehe, my record is 87% on that one, I mainly remember that because ND got 88...and rubbed it in for days (...this is insane )

Meh, My Herc mk1, that's simple enough reason for FS1 to beat FS2 any day...hehehe.... it all comes down to Oenone, and the amount of times she saved my ass....

[Warlock]

All I can say from reading all this is :

[QuantumDelta]

I love that guy always did...hehehe

[Knight Templar]

Originally Posted by QuantumDelta

This would be true, however, as I have already pointed out, our friend KT here turned it into a debate when he attacked our points, everyone else jumped on the bandwagon...so presto, we end up here.

So which post attacked you? The remark to your egotistical, arrogant statement here?

You two posting brings to mind so many stereotypes...

Mission Programmers can't fly you say?

 That's the most arrogant thing i've heard all week.

Or the one were I informed you that you were coming across as an ass and that I Don't really care how good you are especially if you think you are the only one entitled to a valid veiw of the two games, as seen here?

Who do you think you are?

I Don't Care

~ How good you think you are
~ How good you are on PXO

So kindly shut up. Discuss your prefrences over each game, but don't flame or boast about how many n00bies you've beaten on PXO. Nobody cares. It only makes you look like a total jackass. Discuss the games and their aspects, but if you want to boast or flame.. you have an entire squadwar forum to spam.

[QuantumDelta]

....Lot further back then that, Nevermind, You can't exactly hurt my feelings, or 'bruise my tremendous ego' hehe..
If only you knew ^^
Seriously....OT ??

[CP5670]

Time to keep this thing going...

So everyone in V told you how the game was intended to be played? If not then your opinion is based on a couple of hints here and there that don't really stand on their own, and make the world just a little bit more boring (but hey, you like maths)

Well of course they did not actually say that, but that much was rather obvious from the way the briefings were handled and the player was treated; the "hints here and there" all together are conclusive. Does command ever put up their ultimate weapon, the super jock Alpha 1, against the entire Sathanas fleet? I'm sure a pilot like you can destroy them all quite easily. And then, why is it that sm3-08 is designed so that even you, the almighty Alpha 1, is incapable of saving the Colossus? (no ending exists if the Colossus lives, so it is clear what the mission designer intended) Do you end up becoming the supreme emperor of the galaxy at the end of the game? Why do you have to take orders from some stupid admiral who you can certainly cream in a duel? Compare the FS atmosphere to that of Wing Commander games or any of the Star Wars space sims, and you will notice a drastic difference. If you don't believe me there are several game reviewers that have exactly the same interpretation, or if you like you could even get Dave here and see what he says (he lurks around here every now and then).

a) Most of the time it was beating the subtopic of the subtopic, people apparently have problems accepting, just like I'm gonna do now, but not at one point was I showing off...how you may have seen it is another point, however that's not my problem

How people see it is indeed all that matters; the sentences carry no inherent meaning in themselves. Most people around here do indeed find your attitude a tad annoying. I personally see it this way because I have seen exactly the same thing a hundred times before on the VBB, so I have a good idea of what is intended.

b) I don't want to be mean too, but it's none of your buisness nor pleasure to expect or don't expect stuff from me, your clan mate or not your clanmate

It is my business to expect anything and everything I please out of anyone. It is your business as to whether or not to live up to that expectation.

Look, I spoke to you as friend there; whether you heed or ignore my advice is your problem, and I will go no further with that.

c) I actually still have not played against Sleeper/Dark on an equal ground. I know I lost heavily to him on his host when my skills were still crap, and then when I perfected my skills he lost heavily a couple of times on my host, however his excuse is that I used Erinyes and tempests on my host, so it's kind of a no-win situation.

Well, play on a standalone. (actually there is no point in playing TvT outside a standalone due to that host guns thing)

d) Drak? QD and I won Europe by ourselves, no forfiets to come to the first place, nuff said (ah but then you can always say "THE GOOD ONES LEFT")

Oh come on, there were a lot more SSC members than you two participating then; at least give them some credit. As for Drak, they were only around for the first set of leagues as far as I know. They were not the usual wimpy "no fish!!" types, which already places them high on my list, they did emerge as the top on one of the leagues, and perhaps most importantly, they did not rely on particular members; all of them were about equally good, and that is what made them such a solid team. And of course, they were good sports about it.

Not at one point was I arguing over the fact that I need respect. Don't know where you got that from.

Exactly, it was at ten points rather. That much is rather obvious, seeing from how many times you have stated that you are the best pilot around where it had no bearing whatsoever on the case. (e.g. all beams are "homo." why? 'cause I say so and I have mad skillz, you wanna settle it in a duel? ) See, you are used to the VBB squadwar forum, where people won arguments simply by being ace pilots. I remember seeing it so many times, where after a long argument with 200 posts of flames, someone arbitrarily drops in an "let's settle this with a duel; I will beat you up so bad you'll start crying." Over there, this was enough, since the best players commanded the most respect and many people frequently took their statements for granted and sided with them simply because of this. Now you are trying to apply the same principle around here, but the community is different, and good pilots do not carry the same position that they did over there, so it is not working. Besides, do you see anyone here boasting about how they can make the best mods around? This is like my saying that I am the master on the Barnes multifactorial function here so all my arguments on the FS games are absolutely correct.

And I managed to do that second time...lol, not my fault the game doesn't have enough scope....

Sure, but my original statement stands that they did not intend you to do that, or else there would be a debriefing stage for those outcomes. Which goes back to the statement I said even before that being a super pilot can be problematic at times.

We're not on here on behalf of the =SSC= if we were it wouldn't be like this at all, we would have probably bent over backwards for your stupidity, but...we're not, so unlucky for some.

you know, if it gets out onto the SSC forums that you made this kind of remark, you would really be in trouble over there...

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by CP5670
Time to keep this thing going...



Well of course they did not actually say that, but that much was rather obvious from the way the briefings were handled and the player was treated; the "hints here and there" all together are conclusive. Does command ever put up their ultimate weapon, the super jock Alpha 1, against the entire Sathanas fleet? I'm sure a pilot like you can destroy them all quite easily. And then, why is it that sm3-08 is designed so that even you, the almighty Alpha 1, is incapable of saving the Colossus? (no ending exists if the Colossus lives, so it is clear what the mission designer intended) Do you end up becoming the supreme emperor of the galaxy at the end of the game? Why do you have to take orders from some stupid admiral who you can certainly cream in a duel? Compare the FS atmosphere to that of Wing Commander games or any of the Star Wars space sims, and you will notice a drastic difference. If you don't believe me there are several game reviewers that have exactly the same interpretation, or if you like you could even get Dave here and see what he says (he lurks around here every now and then).

They didn't tell you - opinion based.

It is my business to expect anything and everything I please out of anyone. It is your business as to whether or not to live up to that expectation.

I rest my case

Well, play on a standalone. (actually there is no point in playing TvT outside a standalone due to that host guns thing)

[/b]

Anyone who says that has no idea what they're talking about. Oh and the sentence

Oh come on, there were a lot more SSC members than you two participating then; at least give them some credit. As for Drak, they were only around for the first set of leagues as far as I know. They were not the usual wimpy "no fish!!" types, which already places them high on my list, they did emerge as the top on one of the leagues, and perhaps most importantly, they did not rely on particular members; all of them were about equally good, and that is what made them such a solid team. And of course, they were good sports about it.

[/b]

QD and I, ALONE, under any rules, any circumstances...you're making assumptions when you don't know what you're talking about...don't do that...

Exactly, it was at ten points rather. That much is rather obvious, seeing from how many times you have stated that you are the best pilot around where it had no bearing whatsoever on the case. (e.g. all beams are "homo." why? 'cause I say so and I have mad skillz, you wanna settle it in a duel? ) See, you are used to the VBB squadwar forum, where people won arguments simply by being ace pilots. I remember seeing it so many times, where after a long argument with 200 posts of flames, someone arbitrarily drops in an "let's settle this with a duel; I will beat you up so bad you'll start crying." Over there, this was enough, since the best players commanded the most respect and many people frequently took their statements for granted and sided with them simply because of this. Now you are trying to apply the same principle around here, but the community is different, and good pilots do not carry the same position that they did over there, so it is not working. Besides, do you see anyone here boasting about how they can make the best mods around? This is like my saying that I am the master on the Barnes multifactorial function here so all my arguments on the FS games are absolutely correct.

Hmm, you're confusing stuff. You are right, people on the vBB had a bad habit of settling their issues by fighting, and I too found that to be wrong, however you're mixing stuff,  because.....we are talking about the basic essentialities of skill, and what it makes you see. Try not to use an argument that you might see fitting from the past, because most of the times it was about something else. And VBB wasn't different then any other forum, don't know how you make a difference...it was just unmodded and loosly run.

you know, if it gets out onto the SSC forums that you made this kind of remark, you would really be in trouble over there...

......no

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta

Then why, my dear buddy Strat, was I asked by four differeny companies to Beta Test games, by name, in 98 and 99?
Skills do count, then again I suppose you need some to be able to tell, even that...
 

Let me tell you why. Because you play well. Beta testing is used to look flaws in the GAME. Being able to play a game better than most people however, does not make you an expert in judging it's storyline and appeal to most people who do not play that well. You Beta test, so the game wouldn't come out buggy or inbalanced. You Betatest, for no means to improve the STORY. Game companies think of the average Joe. An average Joe does not save the Colossus. The averag Joe, however, notices that Sol can be accessed from multiple other places than Delta Serpentis. The greatest plot hole of FS1. FS2 had no such plot holes.

[BlackDove]

FS2 didn't need plot holes. The mission quality compensates for that well enough...it's well enough of a hole itself

jeez I crack myself up

oh and that reminds me

Originally posted by Stunaep
McCarthy. Why. Why. Why. There was no need for McCarthy. Nothing he did ever made any importance to the rest of the campaign. He, and the entire Avenger thingy was there just because V needed another two missions. One of the worst places of FS1 ever.

You sir need to go back to play the missions, look at the briefings, debriefings...and need to connect stuff...that was one of the more important missions in fs1

[Ulundel]

Originally posted by BD
FS2 didn't need plot holes. The mission quality compensates for that well enough...it's well enough of a hole itself

[BlackDove]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they suck, I just think it could have been done a lot better...however true, there were some outstanding missions in fs2 too...best mission of all fs1 and fs2 missions would be "Into The Lions Den" for me...it's not like I'm dissin all of them, just about 50-65% of em

[Warlock]

You know this thread does bring back of memories

[QuantumDelta]

Actually it was kinda a trick question stunaep, I came second in the Twix Games Player of the Year tournement finals held in london...so they all kinda jumped on me and nick (the winner) unfortunatly he was too young to betatest, then again I had exams to do, I did beta for machines (....God why me....) helped improve that a little.

And, you're only partially correct, the storyline didn't change due to the actions of the player, but that is only because of a BAD Writer, some of the campaigns that my local friends have worked on have been multi route, now that is what FS2 should have been like, is it? nooo......................
I can't see any reason why saving the collossus shouldn't be allowed apart from the fact that they're using it as a cheap piece of prop in a play that can be broken because it's the last show...
It isn't THAT easy to disarm it before it completely nukes the colossus, and sometimes the debris from it will kill the big C anyway, so I really don't see why they didn't allow it, oh yeah....cheap queues...ah...

I've noticed something, everyone on this board seems to put words in other peoples mouths...
And, CP, BD is being serious, we got to first, ALONE, Solely Him, and I, I do believe Cheetah (Fahd) played one match though...

Why? EVERYONE else gave up faith and hope in the division and left BD and I on our own cough I wonder who people like that were CP... so we went for it, and we have recruited, and we have a successful division again.
BD and I recently retired as admins, there's only two squads (...one not worth our time --- Seriously, their best pilots host, 8-2 to me before they jumped, 2v1.) on SW.com we haven't beaten (on their host) the other, DW(G) Whichever, maybe one day we'll go back and beat them too, just that the league never let us challenge them.

I love that squad, even when the others abandoned it and we proved it wasn't worthless...

We really don't need other peoples respect, there isn't that insecurity in it. Problem is, especially in an adversarial environment that absolute confidence we (well at least I ) have in ourselves comes off as ego, being cocky, thinking we know it all, etc, al.
One thing you don't seem to realise, is that I've trained well over one half of PXO's remaining numbers, and I do know this game inside out, and I do help out with that, by testing Cetty's missions, he likes us being the lab rat because then he knows no one else on pxo is likely to exceed it, ever.
So I don't mind testing missions to find thier upper limit, admittedly, I'm not all that good at spotting errors like spelling, or continuity errors, because I gave up on the FS2 campaign, it's just too dull half the time, like i said before
FS1 75-80% good missions.
FS2 25-40% good missions.
They have about the same amount of goodies, just that...you have to sift through more crap to find them in FS2, same reason I never bothered with a playstation, sure, it's gotta big range of games, but ....it's mostly a bigger range of crap(Compared to Nintendo).

I do find it funny that you're blaiming our situation on us being 'too good' lol, interesting take considering the normal situation is 'we're not good enough' in other environments..and you called us cocky? hehehe...

If you guys ever want a campaign tested to see if the mission expectations can be exceeded then come to us, if it's possible, we'll do it, I've never asked for credit in the past, I know what I've done, helped with FZ1 and 2, and 3, my name is in the credits for 1/2 I think, because Su put it there, not because I asked...

And McCarthy did have a purpose, you still haven't met the shivan's at that point and it helped show what needed to be done to stop them, it was an OBVIOUS hint at what was gonna happen in a few missions (why did I just almost call it episodes? lol too much anime)