[Ulundel]

Originally posted by NeoHunter
So, if it is impossible to travel at the speed of light without becoming energy, how can Humans travel to other systems and planets? Are we destined to remain in our own little Solar System?

No, humans are just so dumb that they can't figure out how to travel at lightspeed.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by Ten of Twelve


No, humans are just so dumb that they can't figure out how to travel at lightspeed.

let's take this off the spam road, now shall we?

1. Scientist have already made a photon go faster than light (funny, isn't it, making light go faster than light).

2.

Contrary to popular belief, Einstein's theory of relativity does not forbid a material object from travelling faster than light, only at the speed of light. Particles called tachyons may exist for which the speed of light is the lower limit. In fact some scientists have suggested that neutrinos which are small subatomic particles that may make up the bulk of the universe are tachyons.

-http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/5408/Faster_Light.htm

3.

Despite the apparently bizarre physics involved in these theories, there are enough cracks in current physics theory that faster than light travel can not be ruled out yet.

- same source

[vyper]

Originally posted by Stunaep
oh, the theory of relativity is sooo last century.

Read  Hawking.

Yes, indeedy! I'm reading a brief history of time right now.
I think the best way to deal with the light speed barrier is to say: The closer you get to 2.98*10^8 m/s , the more the traditional laws of physics get shoved up yer ass. Everything we 'know' becomes meaningless.

[Unknown Target]

Lots of input here! I can't wait till it's completed!(Don't forget: We still need to figure out how to do this)

EDIT: BTW, scientists have managed to STOP light

Originally posted by NeoHunter
So, if it is impossible to travel at the speed of light without becoming energy, how can Humans travel to other systems and planets?

What if you bypass light, by going through subspace. In order for humans to colonize the stars, we need to go faster than light, or else it would never be feasable.

BTW, I like that idea of "folding" space, however, it's not useful for traveling from 1 planet to another, or even to another solar system. Why? Because, like he said, it would not be good for anything that was in the folded space.


Here's an idea: Since subspace is an n-dimensional plane, nothing exists in it. What if you entered subspace, then folded that? There is nothing in between you and your destination in SP.

Of course, there's always the gravimetric distortions that would doubtlessly occur when you enter, so you'd have to be careful. You might even rip SP apart.

[vyper]

Originally posted by Unknown Target

Here's an idea: Since subspace is an n-dimensional plane, nothing exists in it. What if you entered subspace, then folded that? There is nothing in between you and your destination in SP.

Of course, there's always the gravimetric distortions that would doubtlessly occur when you enter, so you'd have to be careful. You might even rip SP apart.

What do we know about subspace in reality?

[Unknown Target]

Nothing, but we have very strong theories.

[Unknown Target]

*Bump*

[elorran]

There are 12 known dimensions presently in physics.

As aldo mentioned our universe is indeed the shape of a dounut (ring dounut with a hole in the middle).

Our universe is made up of 10 of these known dimensions.  The other 2 are what is known exists outside of our universe.

Subspace is the dimensional layers that exist below our own.
Hyperspace is the dimensional layers that exist above our own.

You would be more likely to use hyperspace for interstellar travel than subspace, though it is possible that either could be used.  By entering subspace through conventional theoretical methods you are reducing the number of dimensions a ship occupies (from 3 dimension now to 1 dimensional).  But by doing this you are effective destroying the very thing you are attempting to move because to de-dimensionise the transport ship and it's passengers you must change it's energy type into another form.  And by doing that you are destroying exactly what makes up the ship and the passengers in the first place.  Though I am not saying subspace travel is totally impossible, just less likely to be used.
And just a note: since star treks transporters work on matter/energy convertion they are effectively killing the crew and creating copies ever time they get 'beamed' (regardless of whether they are using the same matter/particles or not).  You are only alive as long as your mind is active, the moment that is taken away you cease to be and the reformed you is a copy.

Hyperspace travel would shift the 'ship' up a number of dimensions and use the extra 'dimensional directions' to allow the ship to move more quickly to it's destination.  Although shifting the ship up a few dimensions would be difficult it could still be done safely as there are still three dimensions in which the ship normally exists.

[Unknown Target]

I think that pretty much erases subspace:rolleyes:
On to Hyperspace! That's now our focus, if everyone agrees...

[elorran]

And while it dawns on me I will explain the basic understanding of 'dimensions' for those people who lack the gift of understanding.

We live in a 3 dimensional world which is effected by time (time is classed as the 4th dimension).

A 0 dimensional object is just a dot.  It cannot move what so ever.  Heck the very thought of movement of any form is alien to a 0D object.

A 1 dimensional object is a line.  It can move back and forth along this line, but not to the sides or up and down.  Only back and forth.  (think of a straight string that cannot move, the object can only move back and forth along the string).

2 dimensional objects are flat squares.  They can move back and forth as well as side to side (left and right).  But they cannot move up and down.  (think of a 2d object as an ultra-flat piece of paper that cannot be folded).

3 dimensional objects are cubic.  They can move back and forth, left and right as well as up and down.

The 4th dimension (and beyond) is where things start to get more complicated.  Although classed as the 4th dimension, time is actually only one dimension (at least as far as we know).  You can travel back and forth along the one dimensional time line, though at present travelling backwards along this line has proven impossible.
Of the 10 dimensions in our universe, time (4d) is the odd one out.  Where as the other 9 are dimensions of area/direction, time is the dimension of passage that allows movement to exist in the other dimensions.  Without time these dimensions would remain in the same place forever (think of a 'stasis field').

To explaing the high dimensions of 5 and above I would need to go into scientific details that even I have trouble understanding, so now that you have the basics just know that 5-10 are dimensions of area similar to the 1 and 2D, but they just have more directions.

[Mr. Vega]

Originally posted by Liberator
Realistically, in the next 20-30 years we'll see interplanetary craft powered by nuclear fission and propelled by hydrogen torch, due to the fact that hydrogen provides the most propulsive power for the least amount of reaction mass.

Nope, Anti-Matter wins there.

And Unknown Target, if you're right, then subspace is essentially like Foundation Hyperspace. But then travel should be instantaneous.

Its pretty much hopeless trying to make subspace look possible. The only fictional FTL travel I've ever thought of as possible is B5 hyperspace.

[Kellan]

As for making photons go faster than light, it's a trick. In reality, the 'lead' photon in a chain was bumped up to beyond light speed by a string of other photons in some manner. It might have been energy transfer, but my recollection there is hazy. Anyway, the point is that the sum speed of all the photons never exceeded the speed of light.

Besides, if we're talking about FTL travel through normal space, how does one avoid objects large and small, predictably mobile and immobile, and what about the relativity of time anyway?

[elorran]

Originally posted by Mr. Vega


Nope, Anti-Matter wins there.

And Unknown Target, if you're right, then subspace is essentially like Foundation Hyperspace. But then travel should be instantaneous.

Doubtful.

M/AM reactors and/or drives mean that both matter and anti-matter need to be carried on board.  This means fuel.  The idea in the future will be to get ships that don't require large amounts of fuel.  Aside from which generation of anti-matter is very difficult and even in the coming future will still be difficult to create.

Interplanetary propultion will be most likely using a different method, be it gravity distortion or some form of advanced reactive mass drive (ionic fusion perhaps).

And subspace isn't hyperspace.  I've already been through this (though you may not have read it).  Subspace exists below our dimensions.  Hyperspace exists about our dimensions.

And regardless of what form of travel you use, there is very little chance that any type of travel would be instantaneous.  Very quick perhaps, but not instant.

[CP5670]

There is the possibility of using something like the Alcubierre drive idea, which bends space around the ship into hyperbolic wave-like manifolds, if it is possible to generate particles with negative and/or complex mass.

Besides, if we're talking about FTL travel through normal space, how does one avoid objects large and small, predictably mobile and immobile, and what about the relativity of time anyway?

Those are the main problems with anything going through space in the conventional manner. The normally harmless small particles of dust in space will rip holes right through the ship and the relative time will be going in reverse.

There are 12 known dimensions presently in physics.

I thought it was 26 or something?

[Kamikaze]

What about storing ourselves as neutrinos? I think those things are faster than light, and they've recently been shown to be matter... perhaps we could put a billion billion (whatever) of those in an arrangment which would be us... then we'd somehow re-create on the other side (perhaps send some kind of receiver over to wherever via stl drives...)

[Knight Templar]

I thought it was 26 or something?

wow.. have any names/explanations?

[elorran]

Depends on your definition of 'dimension'.

Where did you hear/read this anyway?

[vyper]

Originally posted by elorran
Depends on your definition of 'dimension'.

Where did you hear/read this anyway?

I believe dimensions are infinite.  I believe this because there are so many arguments over the number of dimensions from lots, to few. At one time we believed in 3 dimensions, period. Then 4. Then on and on. It just so happens we can only "prove" the existence of 12 right now.

[NeoHunter]

What about creating special devices that can "teleport" the atoms and molecules of an object from one system to another? Something like the transporter technology in all Star Trek movies and episodes? Gates would have to constructed at every system we know.

But then again, getting to the other system to actually build the device is something else.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by NeoHunter
...Gates would have to constructed at every system we know...

Do we have to bring Microsoft into every discussion in this place?? Sheesh!