Author Topic: Ancients  (Read 13806 times)

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Offline TopAce

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Quote
Originally posted by Tiara

Why would we talk about the Ancients? They're DEAD! :p


Nothing can be dead if it didn't exist, and won't do in the future.
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"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
The tools to maintain order are: lies, double standards, and hypocrisy. The most powerful and the most insidious of them is hypocrisy

 

Offline TopAce

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I always wanted to ask it, but I was always forgeting it. Now not, what is 'btw'?
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"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
The tools to maintain order are: lies, double standards, and hypocrisy. The most powerful and the most insidious of them is hypocrisy

 

Offline Tiara

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btw = By the way
I AM GOD! AND I SHALL SMITE THEE!



...because I can :drevil:

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Quote
Originally posted by Defconca
I always wondered what influence Bosch had on the shivan behaviour, i.e. if he told them that capella was the new Terran homeworld. If so could he be described as 'evil'? Especially since in my opinion the monologues help the player to empathise to a certain extent with the character, for being sTuck on a path he had committed himself to.

Quote
You know Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them ****ing each other over for a God damn percentage.

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Offline diamondgeezer

<--   Apparently the only HLP denizen to have seen any of the Alien films

 
Quote
Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
It's a little more complicated than that.  I wouldn't say the player's perspective as a pilot in the GTVA is "just" a medium for telling the story.  And "the perspective of the audience" is a term very easily misunderstood.

Really, the story dictates its own terms, using the means of the GTVA pilot to do so in this case.  The persepctive laid down by the story is the norm for the story, and the audience is brought into that perspective while reading (or in this case, playing) it.  If the reader steps back from the story and starts thinking about it instead of reading it, (s)he may take a different perspective than the one the story lays down.  But then we are dealing with the reader's perspective about the story, not the perspective of the story.


Eh? I would say it is important for the reader to take a step back and think about the story, regardless of where the perspective goes from there. It's where all of the niftier plots, like Heart of Darkness or Moby Dick, go. Otherwise, it's all just a rehashed plot with minimal substance that provides a medium for pretty explosions and weird action. I think that the addition of monologues, particularly the Ancients in Freespace (wheee, nifty link back to topic) urges readers to question what is happening and, more or less, equate the carelessness of the Ancients to the Terrans and Vasudans. It is only fitting that when each side meets intelligent life for the first time, diplomacy breaks down and they try to blow the crap out of each other. I would say that the Terrans are Vasudans follow the same pattern of destruction if they hadn't met each other.

Quote
Originally posted by Diamondgeezer

Apparently the only HLP denizen to have seen any of the Alien films


Well, you'd only need to have seen Aliens to know that quote. ;)
As a small random tangent... The beating of that queen by that hybrid alien in Alien Resurrection would contradict Ms. Ripley's earlier quote. However... that movie certainly did muck.

 

Offline Flaser

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Quote
Originally posted by Max
Actually its more like I'm asking???  :p Now...in relation to the Ancients, ever so little though..

How did the Terrans discover subspace?
Thus knowing subspace how did they find the first node - Delta Serpentis?

Could there be some sort of link between the Ancients and the Shivans. and btw what do we call a race older than the Ancients?


There's an ongoing debate about what subspace is - my idea (in other words the one I pimp :devil: ) is that subspace is an aligned space created from the 6 dimensions that are otherwise folded up. Huh? :wtf: Well, according to string physics the truly elementary particles actually exist in 10 dimensions, however only 4 are apparant on macro scale (3 space+ 1 time) *the scale we're talking about is 10^-31 so even an atom is as big as a solar-system*.
It can be further complicated - but made nicer as well - by the bubble theory, that states, that only a certain vicinity of a ship is aligned and this space-time-bubble is the actual vessel for going through subspace.

About how and exactly how was the method discovered, or how does a subspace drive work is unknown as per the moment.

About when and how the nodes were created the oncoming Unification War campaign - the demo for TVW - will answer some of your questions.
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline Zeronet

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Quote
Originally posted by Garfield3d



Well, you'd only need to have seen Aliens to know that quote. ;)
As a small random tangent... The beating of that queen by that hybrid alien in Alien Resurrection would contradict Ms. Ripley's earlier quote. However... that movie certainly did muck.


No it doesnt, the hybrid as exactly that, a hybrid, not a normal alien.
Got Ether?

 
Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet


No it doesnt, the hybrid as exactly that, a hybrid, not a normal alien.


Well, I would buy that argument if it assumes that the taint of human blood makes the hybrid extra tipsy. However, the queen recognized the hybrid as being one of her own.

Looking back on the quote more, I guess my point would be irrelevent regardless since it's not about a percentage.

 

Offline Sesquipedalian

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Quote
Originally posted by Garfield3d


Eh? I would say it is important for the reader to take a step back and think about the story, regardless of where the perspective goes from there.  ...
Of course it is important, but that is a whole different issue from what I was talking about. :wtf:

I was simply describing what is and is not objectively the case, not what is important.
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Offline TopAce

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Quote
Originally posted by Tiara
btw = By the way


I am always learning something new every day. :thepimp:
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
The tools to maintain order are: lies, double standards, and hypocrisy. The most powerful and the most insidious of them is hypocrisy

 
I've never felt the writers intended the Shivans to be conveyed as evil. It's hard to draw an analogy, the closest I can come up with is taking antibiotics to kill an infection. The bacteria causing an infection are alive, but no one loses any sleep over killing them. The Ancients, Terrans, and Vasudans might all be alive, just like bacteria, but as far as the Shivans are concerned, only they are worthy to live. There is no malice on the part of the Shivans, we're polluting the universe and the Shivans are there to clean it up.

As for Capella, I don't believe it needs nor should have an explanation. One of the key reasons why Freespace 2 has remained my favorite game over the years is due to the air of mystery. Whatever the Shivans' goals, they are beyond the understanding of mere gnats like us. The Shivans destroy. Why should always remain pure speculation.

Bosch is an interesting character and another reason why I enjoy the plot. The cutscenes humanize him and try to explain his motives. Its clear he's taken some evil steps along the way, but his intentions are noble: he wants to save his people from annihilation. When he first set out to form an alliance with the Shivans, he could not have known it would fail. No matter how slim the odds, Bosch likely considered it humanity's only hope for salvation. The war with the Shivans is almost certainly futile and some sort of accomodation will eventually have to be developed if the GTVA is to survive. The fact that the Shivans killed the crew of the Iceni is meaningless, they regularly slaughter entire planets. Maybe the crew was like cockroaches to be stepped on but Bosch surprised them by being intelligent enough to talk to them. Who knows? He might eventually work out a (Faustian?) bargain with the Shivans.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2003, 07:44:42 am by 693 »
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Offline karajorma

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Who says Bosch failed? :D
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