[kode]

Originally posted by Turnsky

what gets me the most is that there may be a little anti-american/british/australian sentiment goin' round at the moment you can't judge a people just because of their political leaders and their ideals.

can I judge a people because of how they react when I criticise their political leaders and their ideals? please say yes, please please please!

[Fetty]

what mainly concerns me is the space program
ok the 7 people too but thousands(or millions:confused: )  of people die every day arround the world i cant possibly feel sorry for every single of them including their families, friends and people they knew.
what disturbs me is that everybody trys to make something political out of it .....

[Turnsky]

"i may not agree with your opinion but i will fight to the death for your right to express it" -voltaire

in other words everybodys entitled to their own opinion and anybody who disagrees with that can go to hell

[CP5670]

well well.... freedom of speech, baby. sometimes I wonder if you really have it. I know you brag about it. But do you really want it? the way I see it, it means that all peoples opinions are of equal value, and everyone has the right to express them. But when people disagreeing with your bunch, you try to take this freedom away from me. but guess what, you can't. It's been in the constitution of my country for about as long time as your country has existed. And as I have stated, I do give a rat's ass about this shuttle crasch, but I happen to give more of a rat's ass about other things that also doesn't affect me. And I can not not give a rat's ass about 11/9, because I see and read everyday about US war mongering to "stop global terrorism" and put your flag on top of every flag pole in every middle eastern/south asian country. what your government is doing is raping the rest of the world, under gunpoint. Why should I have to take not being allowed by you to express my opinions on this? Oh, wait... it offends you. Too bad you can't allow only your opinions and suppress others without it not being freedom of speech any longer, huh?

The hypocrisy in this is just incredible. I wouldn't really be talking about "equal value of opinion" there; just look at your post before that one.

What I like about the US is that it is the great terrorist power of the world (in disguise, of course), and nobody can do a thing about it.

so, tell me exactly why spending billions of dollars on launching a few people into space is better than having the economy up to speed again to create jobs for people, and thus giving millions of homeless people a chance to get out of the streets and making a decent living, and having somewhere to live? I believe that the money thrown into space would be better spent here on earth. oh, wait... that is communistic. damn.

Because that would do little for the advancement for the society compared to the scientific benefits of the space programs. There are more than enough people in the world anyway, and they are quick enough to regenerate to keep the population at least at its current level despite any poverty. Besides, this is a US program, and while poverty is an issue in this country, it is not so much of a problem as to suck away all of the space money.

Oh, and I am a quasi-communist myself, so you don't need to worry about me calling you that.

Back on the topic (sort of), how would that nuke propellant system that was brought up here a few weeks ago compare here? Since it does not carry the explosive liquid hydrogen fuel and the nuke plates need to be properly armed before detonation, it would seem that there is less of a chance of an accidental explosion.

[kode]

Originally posted by CP5670
I wouldn't really be talking about "equal value of opinion" there; just look at your second last post.
 

actually, I was expressing my opinions. I don't really want freedom of speech. but it's so hard to not abuse it...

[kode]

Originally posted by CP5670
I wouldn't really be talking about "equal value of opinion" there; just look at your second last post.

What I like about the US is that it is the great terrorist power of the world (in disguise, of course), and nobody can do a thing about it.

Back on the topic (sort of), how would that nuke propellant system that was brought up here a few weeks ago compare here? Since it does not carry the explosive liquid hydrogen fuel and the nuke plates need to be properly armed before detonation, it would seem that there is less of a chance of an accidental explosion.

hey, I wanted you to explain why the space program is better than helping people to a better life.

[Fetty]

because its more interesting ?

[CP5670]

I did now; sorry, I did not see your new posts when typing that up.

actually, I was expressing my opinions. I don't really want freedom of speech. but it's so hard to not abuse it...

The same could be said about anyone else; they are just "expressing their opinions" that you should not have freedom of speech. What is wrong with that?

[Razor]

Ohman. I feel sorry for those people.

As far as i know, I think the heat shields failed and because of friction between the craft and air at high speed, it burned out.

[Fetty]

Originally posted by CP5670
The same could be said about anyone else; they are just "expressing their opinions" that you should not have freedom of speech. What is wrong with that?

but if there wasnt freedom of speech they couldnt say that now could they

[StratComm]

Originally posted by CP5670
Back on the topic (sort of), how would that nuke propellant system that was brought up here a few weeks ago compare here? Since it does not carry the explosive liquid hydrogen fuel and the nuke plates need to be properly armed before detonation, it would seem that there is less of a chance of an accidental explosion.

It wouldn't compare.  It may not explode as much on re-entry, but then again you wouldn't want to launch a craft from Earth using that propulsion system.  The Orion drive was always intended exclusively for interplanetary or even interstellar missions, not orbital liftintg.

And kode, increased government spending is the alternative to supply-side economics in the US, and I can't think of many bigger projects to spend money on than on a new shuttle design.  I'm not sure that I follow your reasoning about the opposition of the space program to economic stimulation.  And stop being belligerant unless you are actually adding to the discussion.

EDIT: As this is my first post in this topic, I would add that the deaths of seven individuals so devoted to science and to mankind's future in space is a terrible loss.  The whole world should mourn their deaths, not as American or Israeli citizens, but as people who were commited to furthering our race through science and exploration.

[ShadowWolf_IH]

i wasn't discussing freedom of speech....nor was i discussing anyone's opinion about what happened.....to be honest i don't much care who cares about it or not.  Here's what i do care about.....instead of allowing our differences to stregthen us as a community here, we are allowing them to instead be used as ammunition....the shuttle blew....it's a Nasa Problem....has nothing to with politics.  Those were the arguements i was talking about, all of the political bull****.  if you got defensive about my earlier post......perhaps you should simply ask yourself why....

other than that....i'll be a gentleman and give you the final rebuttle.  but then we close this one....k?

[kode]

nothing. but they shouldn't brag about their freedom of speech while doing that.

I'm heading for bed just about now, so I think I'll end this off with a quote I'm quite found of:

Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

- Mao Tse-Tung

[Turnsky]

i think NASA's been working on new shuttle designs since challenger but so far, haven't found anything that surpassed the versatility of the current design plus they can't reach escape velocity

[Fetty]

no they trashed the thing they where working on because researching already costed way more than expected and they ran into troubles with the engines n stuff

[kode]

Originally posted by StratComm

And kode, increased government spending is the alternative to supply-side economics in the US, and I can't think of many bigger projects to spend money on than on a new shuttle design.  I'm not sure that I follow your reasoning about the opposition of the space program to economic stimulation.  And stop being belligerant unless you are actually adding to the discussion.

then exactly what are we discussing? lemme see... oh, that's right. the shuttle thingy. or was it anti-americanism? or was it perhaps why I should shut my big, dumb, foreign, anti-american, liberal, belligerant (aggressive) mouth? right. I'll be a good euro-trash and shut my mouth now, and you'll be the ignorant american who gives a **** about 7 dead persons in an accident, but not as much about the sick, poor, and homeless.

bring it on. oh, wait... that's "let's roll", isn't it?
*wuvs generalisations*

[Turnsky]

in other words, forget the pen being mightier than the sword 'cause MONEY is more powerful.. that or a nuke

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by kode
the way I see it, it means that all peoples opinions are of equal value, and everyone has the right to express them. But when people disagreeing with your bunch, you try to take this freedom away from me.

God I hate this fallacy. Look, our Constitution only guarantees freedom of speech in PUBLIC forums. This is not a public forum. It's private, and the mods can oppress whoever they feel like.

As for the "who cares, it's only 7 people" crowd, you're not recognizing that this falls under the category of a Tragic Celebrity Death. When Princess Di was killed, or JFK, or Martin Luther King Jr, was anyone saying "Who cares, it's just one person?" (okay yeah probably some people did). Even though the Columbia crew wasn't famous individually, the role they occupied was. Combine their deaths with the spectacular destruction of a very expensive showpiece of the American space program, and people are bound to be talking about both the event and its ramifications.

[CP5670]

It wouldn't compare. It may not explode as much on re-entry, but then again you wouldn't want to launch a craft from Earth using that propulsion system. The Orion drive was always intended exclusively for interplanetary or even interstellar missions, not orbital liftintg.

The idea could be extended to that though, right? After all, escaping the Earth's atmosphere is where almost all of the fuel is used up. I suppose there is the issue of global radiation, but there could still be a couple of launches carried out in remote places like antarctica without too much danger.

but if there wasnt freedom of speech they couldnt say that now could they

They just say that they get the freedom while others don't.

Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

Ah, I fully agree here.

I'll be a good euro-trash and shut my mouth now, and you'll be the ignorant american who gives a **** about 7 dead persons in an accident, but not as much about the sick, poor, and homeless.

Exactly. Even if you limit this to the people alone, there are much larger numbers of sick/poor/homeless than trained astronauts and there is less chance that they could become something which is high in demand, so they are worth less; it is as simple as that. (see, compare the percentage of poor people dying compared to that of astronauts)

[kode]

I know that, ZylonBane. In fact, I am going downtown tomorrow to get my message out to the masses.