[Stealth]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
it's a freaking RTS...
and Freespace 2 is a Space Combat Simulator... have you ever tryed converting the two?
We aren't talking about making you pilot the ships.. RTS = Real Time Strategy, not flight sim.
yes we are!  In Freespace 2 you pilot a ship, and only ONE ship... converting that to Starcraft would mean you had wingmates and stuff, and you piloted your ONE ship... BUT there would be virtually no problem aiming, cause it's only 2D

And even if you wanted to pilot a FS ship in 2d for whatever reason, its not like you couldn't make it just like any other 2d arcade game.
it's POSSIBLE to make FS ships in Starcraft i'm sure, but it would be a totally different game, nothing like FS2... it would be like Starcraft, but you're only able to have control of one ship, instead of whole fleets... also, what would the point of that be, really...

another thing... remember the aiming, and if you're against a ground unit and a unit in the sky, which are right above each other, how do you tell your ship to attack the ground ship?  automatically it will give hispoints to one of the other (if it's to be realistic)... you see what i mean?  the whole missing-axis thing gives problems

Knight Templar... i'm not saying it's not possible... none of us are, we're just going over problems right now (myself, Black Wolf, venom, and deep_eyes), to see whether it would be worth it to convert the entire thing.  This would be more work than any conversion ever, because we're not just converting different games, we're converting different TYPES of game.

Homeworld --> FS2, that's one thing, but they're the same type of game

[Knight Templar]

uh no it doesn't. We aren't talking about making FS2 into a 2d flight sim. We are talking about making FS2 an RTS ala Starcraft... I thought you would've caught on to that when Deep asked you.

The the missing axis would be fine. Look at starcraft. Battlecruisers fire at marines, marines fire at battlecruisers, marines fire at tanks, why can't we do that in FS2?


EDIT: Once again, your are being slow. Homeworld is a RTS.. not a flight sim. And its not that hard to Make FS an RTS. Instead of playing Alpha One, you play command..

[deep_eyes]

Ok venom seems to be the only one with sense in here. we are not trying to give u the ability to fly wraiths or fighters independently in SC. the game is going to play like starcraft, using starcraft functions, elements, etc, and yes they will act as if a normal sc game, but with FS ships... and as hard as it is, STARCRAFT CAN BE MODDED. there are tools (although hard to use) are avialable.

wolf already incoroperated valkyrie fighters into the form of the valkyrie missle frigate. and he says they can use some work but our skills as 2D artists have grown, especially mine.

sc uses of 2D ART, sprites etc., thats not an issue, the issue at hand is being able to acutally do it and make it work. the sounds to be moddified is the easiest part... starcraft USES .TBL's... aka tables. there not exactly FS'ashish, but there managable.

now on the issue of flying ships in 2d, were not trying to make RAPTOR. were making a SC conversion.

the engine thrusters on the ships for example will have to be edited to acomidate where they thruster are on the fs ships in sc. these can be done its just a matter of reasearching the tools and methods available. i mean, i bet the same issues prior to being able to moddify FS was just as deep and invigorating, with negative comments to the positive, but were 4 yrs down the road on FS2, with a dozen and a half projects and mods, in the works (may not be done), but in the works still, ESPECIALLY with the source code avialable.

of people said FS2 would be dead by 2000-2001, its 2003 and were still strong. if sc>fs2 can be done, i would love it more then anyone to be a wraith fighter, but since its not happening, were doing the next bets thing (the almost impossible thing)... mod SC, and if possible someday revert and SC>FS2.

------------------------------------------------

now in regard to the ship units and FUNCTIONS... i think these will be ported from FS2 to SC cause lets remember, not all ships "can possibly fly in atmosphere"... so i am going to play that assumption.

FIRST FLYING UNITS

Zerg/Shivan:
-- Overlord/ SI Arachnas (yes movable)
-- Scourge/ SF Mara
-- Guardian/ SB Nephlim
-- Mutalisk/ SF Balisik
-- Devourer/ SB Seraphim
-- Queen/ Sathanas or Ravana

CONFLICT BELOW. thinking bout making terran(sc)-vasudan and protoss-terran(FS2)

Terran/Terran (duh):
-- Wraith/ Myrmydon
-- Science Vessel/ GTA AWACS
-- Dropship / Argo Transport or Deimos
-- Valkyrie / GTB Medusa or Ursa
-- Battleship / Destroyer (orion or hecate)

Protoss/Vasudan:
-- Carrier/ Destroyer
-- Corsair/ GVF Horus
-- Shuttle/ GE Ra or n-e transport
-- Scout / GFV Seraphis (the advanced interceptor)
-- Observer / GVA AWACS
-- Arbiter/ dunno...

-----------------------

BW get @ me in MSN messenger when u get on in te morning (for me thats midnight lol)

[Knight Templar]

Suggestion for Deep:

In bringing SC to FS2, don't think about replacing ships as much as going for what the old ships were. What i mean is, make the Science Vessel/station a science vessel/station, not having it replace the Terran Awacs. Making hit have awacs abilities is still a good idea, but t should also be like a science ship and a mobile station.

Also, if you want to do this, (converting SC to FS2) why not go for the full 9 yards and make a space based campaign with new ships? That would seriously be the ****. I don't think I could help model any time soon, but I would try to get some fredding into that , hell , I'd even right the story for you guys if you were going on a dry streak.

Deep, catch me on an Instant Messanger when you get back from lunch

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Knight Templar

EDIT: Once again, your are being slow. Homeworld is a RTS.. not a flight sim. And its not that hard to Make FS an RTS. Instead of playing Alpha One, you play command..
Homeworld is a space simulation, freespace is space combat simulation... the atmosphere and engine are almost exactly the same (have you ever played Homeworld?)

[/color]

like i said, it's possible, but very , very , hard

[Knight Templar]

dude, c'mon on..

Homeworld is a Real Time Strategy set in space, and 3d atmosphere. The only similie is that HW and FS are both in space and have space ships.

Homeworld is an RTS. You strategise where you move and attack with your units. You don't fly around and shoot things liek you do in Freespace. They are two different Genre's based around the same theme; space.

Go back and re-read deep and mine's posts carefully, I think you are confused. The original idea of the port was not two put a flight sim into two 2d, but rather translate a flight sim into a 2d RTS.

[Stealth]

i agree with venom, it would be better to have Starcraft ships in Freespace... that would be good, and better to do.
... and easier.

Or we could do both?  Perhaps work on the Starcraft -> FS conversion first, and then FS -> Starcraft later, when the first is done.  

I for one would be willing to help with it.

[Stealth]

crap... double post.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
dude, c'mon on..

Homeworld is a Real Time Strategy set in space, and 3d atmosphere. The only similie is that HW and FS are both in space and have space ships.
that's what i'm saying!  I'm familiar with Homeworld... very familiar with it, BUT it's a totally different story converting from Homeworld to Freespace, cause they both are set in space, 3D, and with 3D models...
Homeworld is an RTS. You strategise where you move and attack with your units. You don't fly around and shoot things liek you do in Freespace. They are two different Genre's based around the same theme; space.
Knight Templar... i can beat you in Starcraft... i've been playing it longer than i have Freespace... i'm sure i know what Starcraft is about...

But i'm saying it'll be hard, and not very practical to convert from Freespace to Starcraft if you're going to have the player flying a single ship around... that's more arcade than anything...  if you make it like Homeworld, where you command fleets and stuff, then yeah, that would be awesome (see my previous post)
Go back and re-read deep and mine's posts carefully, I think you are confused. The original idea of the port was not two put a flight sim into two 2d, but rather translate a flight sim into a 2d RTS.
yeah, when i spoke to him originally, he didn't tell me what it was about, i didn't really talk much, just looked at the thread he pointed me at

[Knight Templar]

[glow=red]MY GOD[/glow]

This is what we aren't doing... WE are making Freespace into an RTS.. just like i've said countless times before.

I'm sorry, this is too rich.

*exercises ignore button*

good bye mr. fife

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
[glow=red]MY GOD[/glow]

This is what we aren't doing... WE are making Freespace into an RTS.. just like i've said countless times before.
countless times?  you were the last one to come into this discussion, so no, you haven't said anything countless times
I'm sorry, this is too rich.
yeah, it is, isn't it... you just waltz in here, and know everything suddently
*exercises ignore button*
it won't last... i reckon i'll be on it for two days or so, and then you'll "unignore" me, cause you can't resist listening to what i say...

venom, blackwolf, deep_eyes, i say let's do this!  i can help modeling SC --> FS or vice-versa.  deep_eyes, it's your call

[Nico]

BWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
"nukes thread"
SILENCE!
geez
alright folks, start everything over again. Start by learning how to communicate, while you're at it.

[Stealth]

yeah i'm done with Knight_Templar... he expects too much from people, and never gives anything in return.  he's young, and foolish, what can you expect.

but this project is a really good idea!

[deep_eyes]

Originally posted by venom2506
BWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
"nukes thread"
SILENCE!
geez
alright folks, start everything over again. Start by learning how to communicate, while you're at it.

i concure with venom. both of you stop babling, no wonder LM threads be loosey sometimes... lol....

0---------------------------------------0

all jokes aside its me, knight, and black_wolf who already has experience in sc moding. if we get things moving and we get something on paper, and the issue of the XP problem im having with the "stardraft" tools, i might not be able to do it. and i dont want to downgrade to windows 98 just for a mod, if onyl peeps NON-NT can use it...

so if push comes to shove and we cant do this the way we want, either we go ST-A2 engine, or we go full fledge Freespace 2: Starcraft...

:thepimp: that biotch!

[deep_eyes]

i also forgot, being as how either way we do this PORT, were going to have to improvise ships and buldings into both games no matter how we go. being as how Terran buildings FLY, it be interesting to see a floating starbase as a building or instilation, and the command center as a space station...

------------------------------------------

if we do get to the issue of buldings in SC i think as 2d artists we good.

but in fs2, we have to really sit down and plot this, thats why now im posting this: IF YOUR INTERESTED IN DOING THIS, and dead serious on making this happen... LEAVE UR SN BELOW WITH CONTACT INFO. i'll make the website as soon as we get some materials off the ground. if stealth or anyone feels like making a wraith just for good measure to show off in pics, please do so....

also there ARE MESH SITES with SC ships, and models, they just gotta be found.

[Nico]

won't be low poly meshes. If you're begining a SC mod for FS2, I'll do a few ships, the thing sounds interesting to me. let's rewrite that again: I'll provide meshes, I won't deal with conversion or pof data.

[LtNarol]

Originally posted by Stealth
yeah i'm done with Knight_Templar... he expects too much from people, and never gives anything in return.  he's young, and foolish, what can you expect.

but this project is a really good idea!

Hypocrite.  Learn to read, aparently its not just simple directions that you can't comprehend.  What grade level did you say you were in again?

[Black Wolf]

*Head Explodes*

I've been away from this thread for less than 24 hours, and you've already managed to confuse the **** out of me. So I'm going to say two simple thgings

1. Stop flaming in this thread - we don't need it locked, thank you.

2. The Myrmidon is in Starcraft replacing the wraith, and the sprite is teh 1337 (for my work anyway ) the engine glow lines up almost prefectly, it fires from the right area, it's aligned to the correct directions when it moves - I'm a happy camper. That said, the big and little wireframe still needs to be done, and I need to figure out how to change sounds/animations (I think I may have an idea actually... but unless anyone knows any SC modding, it'sd be kinda pointless to try and explain it here...) and it  can still cloak (though I only got a chance to test it for about 60 seconds, so I never got around to cloaking it.

Screenies will be forthcoming, once I've dealt with a few very minor bugs. Look out for them tomorrow.


BTW - for anyone who got as confused as I did just now, this is what we will be doing (as I understand it)

We will be replacing all (or most) of the flying units in Starcraft with Freespace 2 ships. They will be 2d sprites, like every other starcraft unit. For the first iteration of the mod, it will have no affect whatsoever on your gaming experience - the stats and abilities of the units will not change(since we can't change 'em yet ), even if this conflicts with FS canon (The Myrmidon will have cloaking ability, since it replaxces the wraith.) Some buildiongs may also change, and if someone can be arsed, we might knock up a few maps specifically designed for the mod. Later on, if there's enough time/support, we may start making modifications to the weapons, abilities and stats of the ships, and make a true FS2 ---> Starcraft mod, as opposed to the primarily visual one we're doing ATM.

That's it. If someone wants to do the opposite, and make models and skins out of 2d Starcraft sprites, and put them into FS2, then that'd be great (particularly if the SCP boys can get a working cloaking device for wraith pilots . But that's not what we're doing here.

Phew, all done. BTW, there is an excellent Starcraft modding tutorial here, which tells you everything you need to do the kind of stuff we're doing here, and links you to the programs you need (which, as dee eyes said, while they do their job well enough, they can be hard to use as they aren't quite as polished as the tools you use in FS2 modding).

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by deep_eyes

Zerg/Shivan:
-- Overlord/ SI Arachnas (yes movable)
-- Scourge/ SF Mara
-- Guardian/ SB Nephlim
-- Mutalisk/ SF Balisik
-- Devourer/ SB Seraphim
-- Queen/ Sathanas or Ravana

CONFLICT BELOW. thinking bout making terran(sc)-vasudan and protoss-terran(FS2)

Terran/Terran (duh):
-- Wraith/ Myrmydon
-- Science Vessel/ GTA AWACS
-- Dropship / Argo Transport or Deimos
-- Valkyrie / GTB Medusa or Ursa
-- Battleship / Destroyer (orion or hecate )

Protoss/Vasudan:
-- Carrier/ Destroyer
-- Corsair/ GVF Horus
-- Shuttle/ GE Ra or n-e transport
-- Scout / GFV Seraphis (the advanced interceptor)
-- Observer / GVA AWACS
-- Arbiter/ dunno...

Hmmm... not sure if I agree with some of the choices there... you're the boss, but prepare to be tried to be convinced to change some when you next get on MSN

[Stealth]

LtNarol:  get out of here, mind your own business

you expect too much from people, but you never get anything done yourself (look at Exposition for example... the release was two months ago, and i haven't seen anything)

Deep_eyes:  you forgot about me, i've been playing SC since it came out... you know that, you've played me before!