Author Topic: Iraq? (Read 141270 times)

Turnsky · **Reply #840 on:** March 28, 2003, 02:45:21 am

well ion drives have already been invented...

J.F.K. · **Reply #841 on:** March 28, 2003, 02:49:43 am

Well, I suppose we could build a civvie space ship with current technology, but it won't be real civvie stuff for... I dunno, how long? A couple hundred years?

Sandwich · **Reply #842 on:** March 28, 2003, 04:23:21 am

Quote

Originally posted by Knight Templar
uh.. I highly doubt the US would let them have a stronger airforce than them, ally or not.

No.

Define "stronger".

Honestly, while our airforce is far smaller than the USAF, it's far more experienced:

(digs up mini-article.... again)

[q]
IDF - USAF EXERCISES, MED, 5 May 99
In mock air battles during training exercises held about 2 months ago in the Negev between Israeli and US air force, Israeli pilots "shot down" 220 US aircraft, compared to 20 Israeli aircraft "shot down" by American pilots. The exercise was the first time Israeli pilots trained against foreign pilots on such a wide scale. In the past, the IAF objected to such exercises for fear it would expose IAF tactics. However in recent years, IAF commander General Eitan Ben Eliyahu has increased such exercises to help train Israeli pilots against new tactics.
The US pilots flew F14 & F18 jets against the Israeli F15 & F16 jets. While the Israeli pilots drew much praise from the Americans, the Israeli side played down the one-sided results saying that the mock battles were mostly in close air battles - which is a particular strength of the Israelis.
[/q]

Quote

Originally posted by Warlock
...probably a few Hemmets (the funky looking trucks with a resmblance to a crane's driver's cab)...

"Hemmet"? It that what they're called? I think I saw a few of those back in 98-99 - lemme attach a pic. We called them the "Osh-Kosh" trucks. Don't know why - I don't think Osh-Kosh (B'gosh) has invaded Israel...

Quote

Originally posted by Stryke 9

Yeah, you and Jerry Fallwell would get along great.

And if you get that joke, I'll have to make up my mind whether to be just surprised or depressed that he's that famous.

Jerry Fallwell, Jerry Fallwell.... lesse.... no, that's Jerry Lewis.... hmmm... Nope, don't know him.

Jedisam · **Reply #843 on:** March 28, 2003, 04:30:45 am

btw from here on out Saddam will be known officialy by his Krusy the Clown given name "Sodamn Insane" :thepimp:

Turnsky · **Reply #844 on:** March 28, 2003, 04:32:46 am

or spell it backwards... madas +s = madass

Jedisam · **Reply #845 on:** March 28, 2003, 04:33:39 am

J.F.K. · **Reply #846 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:03:49 am

Quote

Originally posted by Turnsky
or spell it backwards... madas +s = madass

That's actually not that bad.

Turnsky · **Reply #847 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:08:16 am

well it wouldn't look right as 'madarse' now would it

aldo_14 · **Reply #848 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:10:16 am

Quote

Originally posted by J.F.K.

Okay so I'm clueless here, whatever happened to all that IFF stuff? I thought that had become standard issue by now.

The (British) Challenger 2 doesn't have IFF, it uses the outdated Clansman radio system. The Bow man radion, which would be equivalent to IFF and would probably have prevented the friendly fire incident, is almost a decade behind schedule. not sure how the Marines managed to destroy one of thier own convoys, though.. so far the friendly fire / accidental fatalities are about twice that of actual military fatalities.

Incidentally, anyone noticed the piss-poor equipment the UK troops are getting? Besides the whole SA80 fiasco & suchlike, they're having to scavenge Iraq boots (as theirs are melting), are wearing tattered 2nd hand camo, and most haven';t even got full desert camo yet - that's why a lot are wearing the jungle / forest green-brown camo they had from their home base.

Turnsky · **Reply #849 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:12:25 am

jeez, even the ADF's better equipped (australian defense force)

oh yeah and sandwich, we were 'shooting down' us f/a 18's with old f-111 c's

Rictor · **Reply #850 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:16:16 am

why would the US want to bomb civlians? well why did *whoever* blow up the WTC?

"That oughta teach 'em Serbs whos boss around here"

___________________________

As for friendly fire, all I can chalk that up to is incomptenece. However, I do not believe that all "friendly fire" deaths were that. "I'm flying my chopper over some Iraqi AA missles, people start shootting, and then suddenly I suffer an engine failure which results in the crash of the chopper"..It sounds to me like they're trying to account for all the bodies

Its kinda amusing to watch all the reactions, cause all of you have at worst been what, mildly pissed of by the US. You have never come to any harm, you have never had bombs dropped on you etc. Watching all the soldiers and their actions, I'm convinced that they still think this is more of a videogame than a war. In this day and age, somehow CNN still manages to report war as "glorious" and "heroic".

Sandwich · **Reply #851 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:20:18 am

Quote

Originally posted by Turnsky
jeez, even the ADF's better equipped (australian defense force)

oh yeah and sandwich, we were 'shooting down' us f/a 18's with old f-111 c's

F111's? Aren't they those huge 2-seater (side-by-side) strike bombers that look like fighters, wih the ejectable cockpit or something?

Turnsky · **Reply #852 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:25:23 am

yup, been around since veitnam, some of the fleet has

here's a piccie (from the RAAF website)

general dynamics F-111

aldo_14 · **Reply #853 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:37:57 am

Quote

Originally posted by Rictor
yes milosevic

you see , I ( a yugoslav, who lived in yugoslaia for 9 years)consider Milosevic a dictartor and a bastard, however the 1999 bombing of Yugoslvia was a)unjust b)illegal c)pointless

What you need to realize is that an attack on a whole country is NOT the way to get rid of a single person. In all the bombing (in both Yugo and Iraq) the president is the last person who will get injured, the people are the ones who suffer most.

1- Without wanting to sound biased, Kosovo was Serbian land. The Albanian population of Kosovo wanted to seperate and join Albania. This is like Texas wanting to break from the US and join Mexico. The fact is that (without wanting to sound prejucided) the Albanian were doing nothing and wanted everything. I have a first hand report from people who have lived in Kosovo for about 35 years, and for the most part the Albanian population had not been pulling its weight for about 40 years. Now this may sound like "he is decriminating against ALL Albanians" but I'm not going to disregard fact just to be "politically correct". No, I do not think all Albanians were like this, but a significant portion. For 50 years the Albanian population in Kosovo has been getting money and of other privileges from the government (better treatment thatn other) and were not giving back anything in return The n they wanted to seperate..this sounds like unthankfullness to me.

http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/mil-ii990524e.htm

9. Simultaneously, within Serbia, calls for bringing Kosovo under stronger Serbian rule intensified and numerous demonstrations
addressing this issue were held. On 17 November 1988, high-ranking Kosovo Albanian political figures were dismissed from their positions
within the provincial leadership and were replaced by appointees loyal to Slobodan MILOSEVIC. In early 1989, the Serbian Assembly
proposed amendments to the Constitution of Serbia which would strip Kosovo of most of its autonomous powers, including control of
the police, educational and economic policy, and choice of official language, as well as its veto powers over further changes to the
Constitution of Serbia. Kosovo Albanians demonstrated in large numbers against the proposed changes. Beginning in February 1989, a
strike by Kosovo Albanian miners further increased tensions.

9. Simultaneously, within Serbia, calls for bringing Kosovo under stronger Serbian rule intensified and numerous demonstrations
addressing this issue were held. On 17 November 1988, high-ranking Kosovo Albanian political figures were dismissed from their positions
within the provincial leadership and were replaced by appointees loyal to Slobodan MILOSEVIC. In early 1989, the Serbian Assembly
proposed amendments to the Constitution of Serbia which would strip Kosovo of most of its autonomous powers, including control of
the police, educational and economic policy, and choice of official language, as well as its veto powers over further changes to the
Constitution of Serbia. Kosovo Albanians demonstrated in large numbers against the proposed changes. Beginning in February 1989, a
strike by Kosovo Albanian miners further increased tensions.

17. After Kosovo’s autonomy was effectively revoked in 1989, the political situation in Kosovo became more and more divisive.
Throughout late 1990 and 1991 thousands of Kosovo Albanian doctors, teachers, professors, workers, police and civil servants were
dismissed from their positions. The local court in Kosovo was abolished and many judges removed. Police violence against Kosovo
Albanians increased.

(above examples from time of the united Yugoslavia, below ones from when he was president of the FRY. All are from the UN inditement of Milosevic for war crimes.)

25. Beginning in late February 1998, the conflict intensified between the KLA on the one hand and the VJ, the police forces of the FRY,
police forces of Serbia, and paramilitary units (all hereinafter forces of the FRY and Serbia), on the other hand. A number of Kosovo
Albanians and Kosovo Serbs were killed and wounded during this time. Forces of the FRY and Serbia engaged in a campaign of shelling
predominantly Kosovo Albanian towns and villages, widespread destruction of property, and expulsions of the civilian population from
areas in which the KLA was active. Many residents fled the territory as a result of the fighting and destruction or were forced to move
to other areas within Kosovo. The United Nations estimates that by mid-October 1998, over 298,000 persons, roughly fifteen percent of
the population, had been internally displaced within Kosovo or had left the province.

28. Although scores of OSCE verifiers were deployed throughout Kosovo, hostilities continued. During this period, a number of killings of
Kosovo Albanians were documented by the international verifiers and human rights organisations. In one such incident, on 15 January
1999, 45 unarmed Kosovo Albanians were murdered in the village of Racak in the municipality of Stimlje/Shtime.

34. During their offensives, forces of the FRY and Serbia acting in concert have engaged in a well-planned and co-ordinated campaign
of destruction of property owned by Kosovo Albanian civilians. Towns and villages have been shelled, homes, farms, and businesses
burned, and personal property destroyed. As a result of these orchestrated actions, towns, villages, and entire regions have been made
uninhabitable for Kosovo Albanians. Additionally, forces of the FRY and Serbia have harassed, humiliated, and degraded Kosovo Albanian
civilians through physical and verbal abuse. The Kosovo Albanians have also been persistently subjected to insults, racial slurs,
degrading acts based on ethnicity and religion, beatings, and other forms of physical mistreatment.

35. The unlawful deportation and forcible transfer of thousands of Kosovo Albanians from their homes in Kosovo involved well-planned
and co-ordinated efforts by the leaders of the FRY and Serbia, and forces of the FRY and Serbia, all acting in concert. Actions similar in
nature took place during the wars in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina between 1991 and 1995. During those wars, Serbian military,
paramilitary and police forces forcibly expelled and deported non-Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina from areas under Serbian
control utilising the same method of operations as have been used in Kosovo in 1999: heavy shelling and armed attacks on villages;
widespread killings; destruction of non-Serbian residential areas and cultural and religious sites; and forced transfer and deportation of
non-Serbian populations.

36. On 24 March 1999, NATO began launching air strikes against targets in the FRY. The FRY issued decrees of an imminent threat of
war on 23 March 1999 and a state of war on 24 March 1999. Since the air strikes commenced, forces of the FRY and Serbia have
intensified their systematic campaign and have forcibly expelled hundreds of thousands of Kosovo Albanians.

37. In addition to the forced expulsions of Kosovo Albanians, forces of the FRY and Serbia have also engaged in a number of killings of
Kosovo Albanians since 24 March 1999. Such killings occurred at numerous locations, including but not limited to, Bela Crkva, Mali
Krusa/Krushe e Vogel -- Velika Krusa/Krushe e Mahde, Dakovica/Gjakovë , Crkovez/Padalishte, and Izbica.

39. By 20 May 1999, over 740,000 Kosovo Albanians, approximately one-third of the entire Kosovo Albanian population, were expelled
from Kosovo. Thousands more are believed to be internally displaced. An unknown number of Kosovo Albanians have been killed in the
operations by forces of the FRY and Serbia.

There's a LOT more I can;t show, but here are some examples of the attempted genocide, which is not atall dissimilar to Hitler's 'Final solution';

d. Orahovac/Rahovec: On the morning of 25 March 1999, forces of the FRY and Serbia surrounded the village of Celine with tanks
and armoured vehicles. After shelling the village, troops entered the village and systematically looted and pillaged everything of
value from the houses. Most of the Kosovo Albanian villagers had fled to a nearby forest before the army and police arrived. On
28 March, a number of Serb police forced the thousands of people hiding in the forest to come out. After marching the civilians to
a nearby village, the men were separated from the women and were beaten, robbed, and had all of their identity documents
taken from them. The men were then marched to Prizren and eventually forced to go to the Albanian border.

d. Orahovac/Rahovec: On the morning of 25 March 1999, forces of the FRY and Serbia surrounded the village of Celine with tanks
and armoured vehicles. After shelling the village, troops entered the village and systematically looted and pillaged everything of
value from the houses. Most of the Kosovo Albanian villagers had fled to a nearby forest before the army and police arrived. On
28 March, a number of Serb police forced the thousands of people hiding in the forest to come out. After marching the civilians to
a nearby village, the men were separated from the women and were beaten, robbed, and had all of their identity documents
taken from them. The men were then marched to Prizren and eventually forced to go to the Albanian border.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/348187.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/347350.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/343411.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/335509.stm

2- The UN cried genocide, even though there was no such thing happening.

The removal of 1/3rd of the Kosova Albanian population, the forced repatriation, mass murder, the suspension of individual liberties? (above)

They just like to throw around that word becuase it sounds cool (it really is that simple/stupid), like weapons of mass distruction. The Albanians were killing the Serbs (military and civilian) and the Serbs were killing the Albanians(military and civilian). Thats what you would call a "war". Yes, civilians were being driven out, on both sides, but both sides were equally guilty of doing it. CNN never mentioned the hundreds of thousands of Serbs that were displaced and fled their homes. (the bombing actually cause more people to flee (on both sides) then the Serb-Albanian conflict)

So, by that justification the uK could have invaded Eire, killed several towns and expelled most of the population because there were republican terror groups based there?

Or Spain could exterminate Catalunya or the Basque region because of ETA?

And that's assuming you count the KLA as a terrorist group and not a seperatist guerilla group - 'freedom fighters' as such. Certainly, the suspension of Kosovan rights by Milosevic during the period of a united Yugolavia could lend credence to that...

3- The bombing only entrenched Milosevic's postion in politics. When a country is under attack, the entire population tends to unite, which includes the President, regardless of his past crimes. The serbian deemed the US a bigger threat, and united as a country, inlcuding Milosevic, regardless of his past crimes. In a bombing attack, the President is the LAST person who will die. He lives in a bunker with food an water and electricity, while the population suffers. Thats like knocking over an anthill to kill the queen. The bombing attack did the exact opposite of what the US hoped, and it didnt even destroy Serbian military (of this is I am very proud, our military showed an amazing amount of creativity and resourcefullness in fooling the US).

You're not aware of the conscript desertion in Kosovo and the civil unrest in their home towns, then? I'll see if I can find some details, but what I do remeber is that a large group of consrcipted soldiers went AWOl and started to returnh home with a large amount of weapons... around the same time, there were also large protests in several towns , etc, over the conscription...

NB: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/347997.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/347467.stm

4- Civlian targets WERE hit on purpouse. I dont know the final number but about 4000 civilians died in the bombing. THe US's excuse was "our maps are out of date, so that marketplace is where we thought a military bunker was". This is the lamest excuse eve, both since the US has satellite guided missles, which dont rely on maps, and since the "smart bombs" are supposed to be the most advanced piece of military hardware on earth.

There is no military adavantage in killing civillians nowadays.... there's just no benefit when you're trying to alienate a dictator from his population.

However, NATO planes were ordered to fly high-altitude, less accurate, bombing runs to avoid casualties, which reduced their effectivness. A low level bombing campaign would almost certainly have inflicted much heavier losses on the yugoslav army.

I dont know about you, but somehow I dont see how 5 year of children running to a fall out shelter at 3am with AA fire and bombs exploding around them is helping anyone, though I may just be obtuse.

Aldo, I dont expect you to believe this until it turns around and bites you in the ass..you'll realize sooner or later, perhaps when London (uhm, I just assume all British people live in London hehe) is being bombed, you'll get it.

I'm sure if the government decides to exterminate a small ethnic group, say the Welsh, i'll understand the Kosova-era Yugolav point of view.

aldo_14 · **Reply #854 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:38:32 am

Schedule A
Persons Known by Name Killed at Racak - 15 January 1999

Name
Approximate Age
Sex
ASLLANI, Lute
30
Female
AZEMI, Banush
Male
BAJRAMI, Ragip
34
Male
BEQIRI, Halim
13
Male
BEQIRI, Rizah
49
Male
BEQIRI, Zenel
20
Male
BILALLI, Lutfi
Male
EMINI, Ajet
Male
HAJRIZI, Bujar
Male
HAJRIZI, Myfail
33
Male
HALILI, Skender
Male
HYSENAJ, Haqif
Male
IBRAHIMI, Hajriz
Male
IMERI, Hakip
Male
IMERI, Murtez
Male
IMERI, Nazmi
Male
ISMALJI, Meha
Male
ISMALJI, Muhamet
Male
JAKUPI, Ahmet
Male
JAKUPI, Esref
40
Male
JAKUPI, Hajriz
Male
JAKUPI, Mehmet
Male
JAKUPI, Xhelal
Male
JASHARI, Jasher
24
Male
JASHARI, Raif
20
Male
JASHARI, Shukri
18
Male
LIMANI, Fatmir
35
Male
LIMANI, Nexhat
19
Male
LIMANI, Salif
23
Male
MEHMETI, Bajram
Male
MEHMETI, Hanumshah
Female
METUSHI, Arif
Male
METUSHI, Haki
70
Male
MUSTAFA, Ahmet
Male
MUSTAFA, Aslani
34
Male
MUSTAFA, Muhamet
21
Male
OSMANI, Sadik
35
Male
SALIHU, Jashar
25
Male
SALIHU, Shukri
18
Male
SHABANI, Bajrush
22
Male
SMAJLAI, Ahmet
60
Male
SYLA, Sheremet
37
Male
SYLA, Shyqeri
Male
XHELADINI, Bajram
Male
ZYMERI, Njazi
Male

Schedule B
Persons Known by Name Killed at Bela Crkva - 25 March 1999

Name
Approximate Age
Sex
BEGAJ, Abdullah
25
Male
BERISHA, Murat
60
Male
GASHI, Fadil
46
Male
MORINA, Musa
65
Male
POPAJ, Abdullah
18
Male
POPAJ, Agon
14
Male
POPAJ, Alban
21
Male
POPAJ, Bedrush
47
Male
POPAJ, Belul
14
Male
POPAJ, Ethem
46
Male
POPAJ, Hazer
77
Male
POPAJ, Hyshi
37
Male
POPAJ, Irfan
41
Male
POPAJ, Isuf
76
Male
POPAJ, Kreshnik
18
Male
POPAJ, Lindrit
18
Male
POPAJ, Mehmet
46
Male
POPAJ, Mersel
53
Male
POPAJ, Nazmi
45
Male
POPAJ, Nisim
35
Male
POPAJ, Rrustem
Male
POPAJ, Sahid
40
Male
POPAJ, Sedat
47
Male
POPAJ, Shendet
17
Male
POPAJ, Vehap
58
Male
POPAJ, Xhavit
32
Male
SPAHIU, FNU
(daughter of Xhemal)
Female
SPAHIU, FNU
(daughter of Xhemal)
Female
SPAHIU, FNU
(daughter of Xhemal)
Female
SPAHIU, FNU
(daughter of Xhemal)
Female
SPAHIU, FNU
(wife of Xhemal)
Female
SPAHIU, Xhemal
Male
ZHUNIQI, Abein
37
Male
ZHUNIQI, Agim
51
Male
ZHUNIQI, Bajram
51
Male
ZHUNIQI, Biladh
67
Male
ZHUNIQI, Clirim
40
Male
ZHUNIQI, Dardan
6
Male
ZHUNIQI, Dardane
8
Female
ZHUNIQI, Destan
68
Male
ZHUNIQI, Eshref
55
Male
ZHUNIQI, Fatos
42
Male
ZHUNIQI, FNU
4
Male
ZHUNIQI, FNU
(wife of Clirim)
Female
ZHUNIQI, FNU
(son of Fatos)
16
Male
ZHUNIQI, Hysni
70
Male
ZHUNIQI, Ibrahim
68
Male
ZHUNIQI, Kasim
33
Male
ZHUNIQI, Medi
55
Male
ZHUNIQI, Muhammet
70
Male
ZHUNIQI, Muharrem
30
Male
ZHUNIQI, Qamil
77
Male
ZHUNIQI, Qemal
59
Male
ZHUNIQI, Re****
32
Male
ZHUNIQI, Shemsi
52
Male

Schedule C
Persons Known by Name Killed at Velika Krusa/Krushe e Mahde -- Mali Krusa/Krushe e Vogel - 26 March 1999

Name
Approximate Age
Sex
ASLLANI, Adem
68
Male
ASLLANI, Asim
34
Male
ASLLANI, Feim
30
Male
ASLLANI, Muharrem
66
Male
ASLLANI, Nexhat
27
Male
ASLLANI, Nisret
33
Male
ASLLANI, Perparim
26
Male
AVDYLI, Bali
72
Male
AVDYLI, Enver
28
Male
BATUSHA, Ahmet
38
Male
BATUSHA, Amrush
32
Male
BATUSHA, Asllan
46
Male
BATUSHA, Avdi
45
Male
BATUSHA, Bekim
22
Male
BATUSHA, Beqir
68
Male
BATUSHA, Burim
18
Male
BATUSHA, Enver
22
Male
BATUSHA, Feim
23
Male
BATUSHA, FNU
(son of Ismail)
19
Male
BATUSHA, FNU
(son of Zaim)
20
Male
BATUSHA, Haxhi
28
Male
BATUSHA, Lirim
16
Male
BATUSHA, Milaim
32
Male
BATUSHA, Muharrem
69
Male
BATUSHA, Njazi
39
Male
BATUSHA, Osman
65
Male
BATUSHA, Sefer
19
Male
BATUSHA, Sejdi
68
Male
BATUSHA, Skifer
22
Male
BATUSHA, Sulejman
46
Male
BATUSHA, Zaim
50
Male
HAJDARI, Abaz
40
Male
HAJDARI, Abedin
17
Male
HAJDARI, Halil
42
Male
HAJDARI, Halim
70
Male
HAJDARI, Hysni
20
Male
HAJDARI, Marsel
17
Male
HAJDARI, Nazim
33
Male
HAJDARI, Qamil
46
Male
HAJDARI, Rasim
25
Male
HAJDARI, Sahit
36
Male
HAJDARI, Selajdin
38
Male
HAJDARI, Shani
40
Male
HAJDARI, Vesel
19
Male
HAJDARI, Zenun
28
Male
LIMONI, Avdyl
45
Male
LIMONI, Limon
69
Male
LIMONI, Luan
22
Male
LIMONI, Nehbi
60
Male
RAMADANI, Afrim
28
Male
RAMADANI, Asllan
34
Male
RAMADANI, Bajram
15
Male
RAMADANI, FNU
(son of Hysen)
23
Male
RAMADANI, Hysen
62
Male
RAMADANI, Lufti
58
Male
RAMADANI, Murat
60
Male
RAMADANI, Ramadan
59
Male
RAMADANI, Selajdin
27

J.F.K. · **Reply #855 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:49:53 am

*moment of silence*

You know, from what I gather, a huge chunk of the equipment being used by the U.S. is really old stuff. Australia has no old stuff, we had no part in the Cold War.

Turnsky · **Reply #856 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:52:55 am

but australia has had a limited nuclear program.. and testing ground tactics in the aftermath of nuclear detonations in a bush enviroment, but since we didn't have one we were forced to detonate 50,000 tons (or so) of dynamite in the bush. saw footage of that too

J.F.K. · **Reply #857 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:55:30 am

Doesn't the U.S. have a patch of land somewhere in the middle of our country for something? It was surveillance, or weapons testing, or something secret. We can't go there, it's U.S. territory. Something like Japan's arrangement with Guam.

Turnsky · **Reply #858 on:** March 28, 2003, 05:56:37 am

great; 'area woop woop'

J.F.K. · **Reply #859 on:** March 28, 2003, 06:03:30 am

Say, all you international people: what do you guys think/know/perceive of John Howard (Australian prime minister, if you don't know)? I think he's a poor man who's been deceived by power, personally, but I want to know what the rest of the world thinks of the leader of the only other country apart from US/Britain actually fighting on the ground in Iraq.

News:

Poll

do you think we should, you know...

Author Topic: Iraq? (Read 141270 times)

Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here

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