[Petrarch of the VBB]

Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
You're trying to tell me you don't think one could fit a human being into a ship 33 feet wide, 18 feet tall, and 48 feet long?  Whatever it is you've been smoking, I suggest you stop.

you've got to get all the engines, sensors, weapons, generators, fuel tanks, and other systems too.

[Sesquipedalian]

Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB


you've got to get all the engines, sensors, weapons, generators, fuel tanks, and other systems too.

Yes, and one also builds a little space for a cockpit.  It isn't exactly hard.

[Stryke 9]

Engines and fuel tanks/fusion reactors might take a lotta space (fusion reactors a LOT of space, what with the necessary heatsinks, insulators, baffles, and cooling devices, never mind radiation shielding)... but from the looks of the techroom animations, they've miniaturized super lasers a good deal by then, and I'd have no doubts you could have microboard CPUs and miniaturized sensors a few centuries in the future... So basically, you get about four to twelve cubic yards of engine (for a smallish ship), maybe a cubic yard of everything else, and two or three for the pilot to sit in, likely nested among all the components rather tightly (help dampen G-shock on something so fast as a Dragon, anyway). With a Shivan, no life-support necessary, so there you go. Plenty big enough.

[kode]

There's no info about shivans and cockpits from that captured dragon in FS1, is there?

[Stryke 9]

If there was, you don't think people would be quoting it chapter and verse now?

[kode]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
If there was, you don't think people would be quoting it chapter and verse now?

probably. for all it matters, the fighters could just as well be maneuvered by a computer or something. maybe a less powerful onboard the ship, and a mainframe on suiting cruiser/lucifer/whatever. that could be why they were all so easily defeated after lucifer was destroyed, if there isn't a hive mind or whatever... these topics are all so funny...

[Petrarch of the VBB]

It is a hive mind, but there would still be organic pilots aboard the craft, just their actions would be slavred to the hive mind, like the borg.

[kode]

Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
It is a hive mind, but there would still be organic pilots aboard the craft, just their actions would be slavred to the hive mind, like the borg.

has the hive mind theory been proven?

[kasperl]

Originally posted by kode


has the hive mind theory been proven?

AFAIK, no, but it would be a very logical thing, IMHO. i kinda see the shivans like the Zerg from starcraft, a large hive mind. multiple subspecies would also be logicak if you ask me.

[kode]

Originally posted by kasperl


AFAIK, no, but it would be a very logical thing, IMHO. i kinda see the shivans like the Zerg from starcraft, a large hive mind. multiple subspecies would also be logicak if you ask me.

mm... that's quite plausible. still, there'd be no need to really have shivans inside the fighters, since the shivans are cybernetically enhanced and probably could control them from elsewhere.

[CP5670]

In that case, I guess they just took a Terran cockpit and control consoles and slapped those onto the captured ships. They couldn't get the shivan weapons to work with that, but that's just as well since the shivan fighter weapons suck anyway.

The hive mind idea does have its problems, but it is indeed probably still the best theory out there as to how the Shivans operate. It is mentioned in the tech room description for shivans as the one with the most support. As far as FS1 went, the hive mind explained the chain of events perfectly, but what exactly would be considered the "brain" in the FS2 Shivan fleet?

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Each Sath would have a hive mind, controlling its supporting fleet. and they would all be controlled from afar by some monstro-mind on the shivan homeworld.

[Grunt]

"Organic fighters" ?

Please ! Remember, these crafts have engines, reactors (not too bearable in the stomach of even the most advanced organism ), electronic subsystems (the signature of which is used by the GTVA for detection), etc.

I would rather vote for the "smaller subspecies, or young entity as fighter pilot" idea.

[kode]

Why not vote for the shivans are cybernetical creatures, organic fighters, mostly machine-theory?

[Petrarch of the VBB]

They could simply "Be one with their vessels", like the Bentusi.

[beatspete]

A lot of earth species have variations in size (etc) between something as simple as male and females.  Just because the shivans we saw in Hallfight were x, y and z doesnt mean all shivans are.  There could be special breeds of shivans, smaller ones used for piloting.

Also, the requirements of a shivan ship are probably different from terran ones.  Does it need large fuel tanks?  Lifesupport? Maybee they have a very small efficient reactor.
Bear in mind the ship of a shivan - they can probably fit in a fighter with a few clever yoga moves.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by CP5670
The organic fighter idea may have some merit to it, as the "normal" Shivans are probably too large to fit into the fighters; as JFK said, one of the ST movies (shiphit2 I think, the one with the shivan banging on the thoth), although it is just supposed to be a joke, shows the relative scale of the shivans.

However, it would also introduce numerous problems; namely, how did the GTVA capture these things, and how did they fit Terran pilots into them? Obviously if the ship is an organism in itself, it has no inside space for anyone nor any standard controls, and if the ship can think and operate on its own, how did they get its "brain" to give up control of the ship to the player? The first issue can be rectified with some clever engineering, but I have no idea about the second one; they would need something like Yuri from RA2 to mind control the ship.

I think it is possible that the five-legged Shivans can actually fit into the smaller fighters, but unlike the Terran and Vasudan ships, they would be taking up most of the room inside instead of the usual reactor, weapons, etc. and the entire fighter would have to be shaped to accomodate them, which seems a rather inefficient use of space.



which is the point of this thread.

If Shivans take up the entire ship, maybe they also supply the power?  In that case, maybe the captured ships used parts of captured Shivans....?

[kode]

Originally posted by aldo_14


If Shivans take up the entire ship, maybe they also supply the power?  In that case, maybe the captured ships used parts of captured Shivans....?

huh?

[Grunt]

Originally posted by kode
Why not vote for the shivans are cybernetical creatures, organic fighters, mostly machine-theory?

'cos when I say ship I mean the body of the ship. An organic hull doesn't make much sense IMO. If it's mostly-machine than it's not organic, just a machine with some organic implants. Cybernetical creatures is OK, but they may also need a good old inorganic chassis in space.
Though I could imagine the SF Scorpion or Mara to be a tight fit coat for a 5 legged Shivan. Than his (her ?) brain is simply wired to the ship's (half bio-)computer and GO.

[Hippo]

they have some sort of power station in the shivan body itself, explaining how the big beamy thingy obliterated the Bravo 2 leader