[Stryke 9]

Overly literal FS geek question 1: Okay, so the Shivans don't breathe. They appear not to photosynthesize, and a hardened spaceworthy carapace would make it hard to absorb ambient resources from their environment. And they have all sorts of plasma ducting running through them, judging from their array of weaponry. So, what do they EAT exactly? How do they breathe, or otherwise gain energy and nutrition? A metabolism that doesn't appear to need much of anything it can't fit inside a rather leggy (and I'd imagine already crowded) Shivan and yet can process and generate copious amounts of high-energy plasma, AND leave them with enough energy left over as would most certainly be needed to wage constant war on everything that moves (never mind how much energy that three-leg, bouncing-off-walls setup must take) would have to be pretty impressive. They nuclear- just pop a few uranium pills, and they're good to go? Fusion? Seems that'd require near-constant access to hydrogen and such.

So, any ideas? Have fun, and don't say something stupid like "they're fueled by HEADZlolololol!!!111oneoneone". If you want to act mentally disabled, go on over to the Hard Light forum, where they'll take care of you quite nicely.

[IceFire]

What if they draw their energies straight from subspace....a subspace tap in essence.  That'd be pretty wild and possibly strange enough for the Shivans.  They are darn sensitive about subspace nodes (they seek to control them and don't even care about planets) so maybe this is why.

[Eishtmo]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
Have fun, and don't say something stupid like "they're fueled by HEADZlolololol!!!111oneoneone".

Not to encourage this, but there was a fanfic written sometime ago where the author theorized that the Shivans were actually eating people, thus the reason for the invasion.  I think its in the old FS Archive, but I can't remember if I ever put it up.

In any case, we all know Vasudans have a headz problem, not Shivans.

[Galemp]

Since Shivans obviously have advanced cybernetic capabilities, I would imagine they have some sort of plug with which to recharge all their weaponry and body enhancements. Shivans can literally recharge themselves from a cocoon in their ship. They're probably like the human 'batteries' in The Matrix; cybernetics implanted at birth, complete with a full artifical digestion system, so Shivans can live off raw power produced by ship reactors.

[Anaz]

Originally posted by IceFire
What if they draw their energies straight from subspace....a subspace tap in essence.  That'd be pretty wild and possibly strange enough for the Shivans.  They are darn sensitive about subspace nodes (they seek to control them and don't even care about planets) so maybe this is why.

I like this idea the best

[Stryke 9]

What energy's in subspace, though? I mean, if there really was a free energy source there, you'd think there'd be Terran ships using subspace jumps as an opportunity to refuel and such, if they didn't outright make subspace-based power plants. I guess all those glowing lights must mean some sort of energy (light) release, but a useful one? Seems like they're supposed to be pretty far away from the portals and such...

It'd make sense, but there'd need to be some kinda usable fuel in subspace, and there's no evidence of such.

The power thing would be handy, but it'd also be extremely inconvenient for anything not fighter combat, since they'd necessarily die if they were separated from a plug for more than, say, a few hours (giving their bio-batteries a LOT of credit, there)

[diamondgeezer]

Subspace = gravity = energy.

That's logic, that is

[Stryke 9]

How is it gravity? Gravity doesn't let you teleport from place to place.

And if it IS gravity, then I'm dissapointed in the Shivans for not having some big, nasty grav beams to rip cruisers to bits in one shot.

[Knight Templar]

Well, I like the Subspace Idea and the Battery Idea. Maybe a Combination of the two.

About the subspace deal, I like to think of it the mindgames way, as subspace being a forrest, and Nodes being the entrance where you have to force your way in. That being said, I think there might be more to Subspace than just tunnels and maybe the shivans live there. If they do live there, then it'd probably have some kind of energy source/resource/etc to sustain them.

As for the battery deal, It's a good, short explaination that ties into their cybernetic supeiorority, but it doesn't say a lot about them as a whole.

In any account, I don't think they get their energy through digestion, at least as we know it. They don't even have mouths.

[Galemp]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
And if it IS gravity, then I'm dissapointed in the Shivans for not having some big, nasty grav beams to rip cruisers to bits in one shot.

Download the Sath Subspace Rift... you'll find subspace weaponry in there.

Say, that actually makes a lot of sense. The Shivans used subspace gravity to rip Capella apart... interesting.

But still, how would Joe Shivan tap into the subspace energy? Shivans use gas miners just like the rest of us, so there's got to be some kind of fusion reactors on board.

[Stryke 9]

The ships are pretty plainly fusion-based, or at least on whatever fusion drive can fit in the FS ships (cold microfusion?). Physics isn't really FreeSpace's strong point, so I was kinda staying away from the ships and ****.

And... meh. Gravity could tear apart a star, but it'd be awfully inefficient. I mean, with the amount of energy expended there, you could just blow up everything in the system individually (or turn those Saths outward- suck everything into the sun) and still have plenty left over for the next one.

A real gravity gun would more crumple up a ship like a piece of trash paper, so long as it wasn't along the lines of a tractor beam. If you've got a mod for that, I'd be impressed.

But anyway, yeah. You still haven't explained why you think subspace (or hyperspace, if that makes it simpler for you- basically a dimensional transfer system) has anything at all to do with gravity.

[LtNarol]

The use of miners by Shivans could just be for certain weapons.  As for subspace having energy, in real space we have solar energy from billions of sources, do you see Terrans really tapping into that in FS2?  Just because its there doesn't mean that everyone would care to use it or in this case even could use it.

If we know one thing about Shivans, its their superiority in their knowledge of subspace.  Form of wave has energy, subspace is suggested to inherenty revolve around some form of energy as subspace drives operate by creating specific vibrations which open subspace rifts.  Resonance anyone?

[Stryke 9]

You don't see a lot of shipmounted solar power, because a few miles or solar panel kinda get in the way in heavy combat, particularly since it wouldn't take any weaponry more advanced than a thrown brick (which I suppose could get complex in space) to take out the entire power system to leave a ship helpless. If a subspace tap is small enough to be used by individual Shivans, I'm sure a crude Terran version would still be smaller than, say, a full-blown fusion ring capable of about four figures of terawatts (those plasma guns would take a lot).

Incidentially, you do see solar panels on the civilian science cruiser. So much for that.

[diamondgeezer]

Look, I'm too tired to explain it right now, but surely everyone knows that subspace nodes exist where you get intense gravity thingimajigs. Subspace nodes can only exist inside a solar system for this reason, etc. Subspace is inextricably linked with gravity. Play more FS.

[Stryke 9]

Last I checked, Subspace nodes were anchored by the gravity from stars, but had to be a certain distance out from them where... wait, that's L-Points. I'm thinking of a game that tried to make sense (even if it sucked), nodes can be anywhere they wanna be, and generally are. But at any rate, that's like saying planets are just giant balls of gravity, because they're attracted to things with gravity.

[Liberator]

Natural Subspace Nodes exist at the lagrange points between celestial bodies, i.e. Stars, Planets, Moons.

Interstellar Nodes exist between only the parent star and the largest gas giants in the outer portion of the system, where the interaction of their respective gravity feilds stresses space the most.

If we follow this reasoning, then there are interplanetary between planets and the largest moons in their system.

This makes an interesting conundrum; node size would be dictated by the strength of the gravity fields that interact to create them.  It would also explain why large ships such as an Orion must attain a much higher velocity to enter subspace.  They have to move faster to punch a large enough hole in the space to enter subspace.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
But at any rate, that's like saying planets are just giant balls of gravity, because they're attracted to things with gravity.

welll... they have gravity, so thats not entirely untrue. Anyway, a Shivan is what... 3-4 times as large as a human. For the breathing problem in general, maybe they breathe throuhg their skin like frogs. as to what they breathe... that has to be some heavy ****, if they can go to outer space to walk their dog.  or wait, maybe they do need /insert shivan breathing thingamajig here/ to live, but they have a biological system so advanced, that they either need very little of  /insert shivan breathing thingamajig here/ to live, or can store in amounts that makes them capable of spacewalks. or both

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by Liberator
Natural Subspace Nodes exist at the lagrange points between celestial bodies, i.e. Stars, Planets, Moons.

Lagrange points?

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Goober5000


Lagrange points?

The Italian-French mathematician Josef Lagrange discovered five special points in the vicinity of two orbiting masses where a third, smaller mass can orbit at a fixed distance from the larger masses. More precisely, the Lagrange Points mark positions where the gravitational pull of the two large masses precisely cancels the centripetal acceleration required to rotate with them. Those with a mathematical flair can follow this link to a derivation of Lagrange's result.

Of the five Lagrange points, three are unstable and two are stable. The unstable Lagrange points - labelled L1, L2 and L3 - lie along the line connecting the two large masses. The stable Lagrange points - labelled L4 and L5 - form the apex of two equilateral triangles that have the large masses at their vertices.

**props to NASA for the relatively simple explanation**

[hobnob1978]

Shivans could use the power provided by their cap ship/fighter to live. I like this "subspace tap" idea very much but I`m gonna change it slightly.

What if a shivan has an internal subspace signal reciver that can accept a low subspace signal emenated from their ships internal structure or fighter cockpit. The signal carries the energy required to power a shivan.

They use this energy to charge a battery for emergency power if seperated and the subspace charge powers their weapons.

this would explain why

a)Shivans do not use ground troops, they bombard planets from their ships hence them not being interested in planets

b)why terrans are able to have captured shiavn specimen. they could have captured shivans from a ship so damaged that it could not generate the power signal. the shivans, living off emergency power, could not use weapons and so could be captured easily. They could be kept alive by the terrans feeding them low power from fusion reactors ect.

This also explains why their ships use gas miners to collect fuel. they need it to power the reactors of the ship from which they feed from the subspace signal.

Feeding off subspace would make their ships not need the use of gas ect as they could take power from subspace reactors...

Hang on... What if they just use the various gas particles to make ships?? I mean the terrans needed Argon (I think) to build the prometheus S cannon. Shivans do not live on planets or even seem interested in their resources.

So a shivan internal tap taking subspace or fusion, M/AM reactor energy is probably the best idea....

Unless they use Matter/Antimatter reactions themselves. A tiny reactor (the size of a matchbox) of that size that could power a single shivan with the energy also fro a plasma cannon ect. A bigger one could generate power for shivan cruisers. Again though, they need gas particles to run it.

Signal is probably quarkion or gluon in nature (well some high powered particle present in subspace)
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