[Stryke 9]

Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER
Oh please stop beating around the bush! And that sheep Stryke9!
 

Da hell? Dis tread be wack, yo.

Goober: Probably not such a hot idea. The mods and admins have enough work as it is without getting emails every time someone on this board wants to take a piss, and it'd just all aroudn be an inefficient way to go. Nobody would want to post any more. I think just enstating a little common sense here would do the trick- let everyone know that this is a (relatively) serious board, and maybe if someone starts spamming here in earnest a bit of a heavier hand with the banning. After all, there's the Hard Light forum for spam...



As to the rest of this thread- well, so long as the game can load POFs, etc. from multiple VP files (I haven't messed with FS in a long time, I don't know whether it can or can't), I really don't see the problem. I think maybe Sid's running on the assumption that it can't. But table files are included with most every mod, and copying and pasting is simple enough, so yeah.

[CP5670]

CP, do you mean the ability to make a modified ship within a mission? For example, have an Ace's custom modified Herc or something have an extra bit of speed or armor?

Yes, that would be one possible usage of this. An extra section can be added in between the #Music and #End sections of the mission file, for example:

Code: [Select]


#Table overrides

$ships.tbl   ; one section for each table

$Name: GTF Hercules Mark II   ; this would tell the game which ship to apply the changes to
$POF file: [new model file]
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 70.0
$Hitpoints: 400



(this is probably nonsense as I'm no programmer, but you should get the idea)

It may be necessary to include the rest of the data for the ship as well even if it is unchanged, depending on how the game reads ships.tbl.

I'm not sure how exactly this might be made to work, but it would add enormous flexibility for mission designers. Actually, I personally would be quite satisfied even if only the hitpoint setting could be changed around; I can then delete all those duplicate entries in the PI ships.tbl that were created just for a hitpoint hack for a certain mission.

[Sesquipedalian]

This discussion came up once many moons ago.  At the time it was pointed out that the table files are parsed only once, when the engine first starts.  It was further remarked that having the tables not be parsed until loading the mission would cause difficulties and longer loading times.  It would also cause malfunctions in the tech room, and likely send pilot files into a tailspin.

However, coopting the special-explosion code for changng hit-points might still be a possibility.

[LtNarol]

You said tables are parsed only when loading, what about missions - or did you mean all game files period?

[Goober5000]

I'm pretty sure that the custom hitpoints thingy would be quite easy to implement, and it's on my list of things to do.  There's a substantial amount of code in the special exp routine that can be used for this.

[IceFire]

I think the current method of using a command line to specify a data tree is very effective and probably better and definately easier than using this system.

I see its merits...a game I used to MOD (DarkReign) had this feature too.

[SadisticSid]

I was thinking of Inferno primarily when contemplating this. Yeah, I'll agree the time could be better spent resolving bugs, adding additional functionality and so on, but it'd be useful for just copying and pasting individual files for each ship/group of ships when Woomeister decides to make a table change, and it requires downloading the whole kit and kaboodle again.

You`d need a way to turn certain mods on or off and you`d need a way to script that or installing something like TBP would take you ages turning mods on and off.

I didn't mention turning mods off at all. All that I'm suggesting happen is any file in maybe a subdirectory of tables (ships, perhaps, for the ship TBLs) would be parsed when the game started up.

Exactly - more work.

No, less work. I didn't say that the ships.tbl should be split into smaller files. And it would mean that mod-makers would no longer require existing TBLs to be edited.

I think the current method of using a command line to specify a data tree is very effective and probably better and definately easier than using this system.

No no... I didn't mean for it to determine which mods are included when the game loads - simply that it loads and parses anything in the relevant place with a .tbl extension. I'm sure the existing method for selecting which data directory is used could happily coexist with what I'm suggesting.

[Galemp]

Originally posted by SadisticSid
but it'd be useful for just copying and pasting individual files for each ship/group of ships when Woomeister decides to make a table change, and it requires downloading the whole kit and kaboodle again.

Why not have a bunch of VPs set up by type? IE you have a VP for the Inferno tables, a VP for the models, a VP for the maps, a VP for the interface art, and so on. Then each VP is updated individually, so you don't have to download all the hi-res maps and sound effects just to get one table change.

Just my little contribution to help solve the bigger problems.

[SadisticSid]

That'd probably make things worse, actually.

EDIT: This is because the amount of model, map and interface data is enormous in the Inferno mod (257MB in VP form at the moment, and still growing).

[IceFire]

With TBP, we'll be using a /tbp data tree system with our own icon on the desktop or on the start menu. That should achieve activating and deactivating the MOD at will.  Just pick the right icon

[LAW ENFORCER]

Originally posted by SadisticSid
I was thinking of Inferno primarily when contemplating this. Yeah, I'll agree the time could be better spent resolving bugs, adding additional functionality and so on, but it'd be useful for just copying and pasting individual files for each ship/group of ships when Woomeister decides to make a table change, and it requires downloading the whole kit and kaboodle again.



I didn't mention turning mods off at all. All that I'm suggesting happen is any file in maybe a subdirectory of tables (ships, perhaps, for the ship TBLs) would be parsed when the game started up.



No, less work. I didn't say that the ships.tbl should be split into smaller files. And it would mean that mod-makers would no longer require existing TBLs to be edited.



No no... I didn't mean for it to determine which mods are included when the game loads - simply that it loads and parses anything in the relevant place with a .tbl extension. I'm sure the existing method for selecting which data directory is used could happily coexist with what I'm suggesting.

#



THIS is exactly what i was trying to say! But he said it much much better!

One thing, im my case I would use it more for bug testing - enter a single ship or a bunch of ships (I would also want this to be suported rather than just single ships) into a certain .tbl slam it into the dir and see if it crashes, you then have a much smaller MUCH easier bug testing base. You could even seperate them to see which one kills it rather than searching 200+ ships for errors
(ever taken a break from MODing to come back to an error and frgot which ship you were MODing? ARRRGGHHH!!!!!).

And it seems my joke at the end makes people think Im arrogent...

True my dislexiya (I can't even spell that!) and 'other' problems do make me say slightly arogent things, but I try and keep it in check.  However it seems my humor (which is not very good, I know) is what it seems people picked up on... Do I really have to label ALL my (non-)houmorus comments [LAW HUMOR]This is one of my jokes[/LAW HUMOR]?

[LAW HUMOR]
not very observant I would say but then Im 'disabled':(


(bet that made ya feel bad!)[/LAW HUMOR]

[Stryke 9]

Ba-dum-tish!

Sorry, dude, but you just walked right into that one.

[LtNarol]

Well if you want to argue the easier changes, what purpose do VPs serve?  Heck, why even bother with folders when you can have all your files right there in front of you so that you don't have to go through the oh-so-great trouble of double clicking on folder icons?  Is hitting ctrl + c and ctrl + v really that difficult?

[karajorma]

If table changes are causing you such great problems why don`t you get Woomeister to send out his version of the table once he's changed things? It's not like a table file is very big once zipped! I find the idea of dropping one file into the data drawer much easier than going through the drawer and replacing several files.

On top of all this what happens if once you`ve tested a mod you add the data to the default table but forget to remove the smalled tbl file? That's the sort of problem that could very easily occur with this sort of thing.