[Sandwich]

Originally posted by karajorma
...Sticking with working with an existing project, one idea would be to get behind a project that would attract people from outside the community. That means that TBP, Star Wars and even the SG-1 project currently being discussed on VWBB are good ones to get behind.
 Even better you can't really spoil the storyline for that kind of mod because all you have to do is recreate something from the show.

Look at the missions from TBP for an example of what I mean. Knowing what was going to happen wouldn't have spoiled that mod much because there aren't any mods in it we haven't already seen and most of the plotline is also well known so there are only little surprises.
Secondly once the mod has been completed many people start making new missions for it themselves. The spin off's are where those of us who contributed to the project get to play something that we don't know the plotline to.
 Again I'm using TBP as an example cause if you look at the forums you'll see lots of missions being made by people who are newbies. If we want to keep FS2 alive we need to bring in new blood.  

People are crying out for a B5 game. The sad fact is that very few of them know about the existance of TBP and most of those who do can't play it cause they don't have FS2 and the FS2_open is quite at the stage where it supports it seamlessly.

The SG-1 project over at VWBB is at an early stage but would also be another good one to get behind. As far as I know there aren't any space shooters for that universe. I'm sure the fans wouldn't mind playing one.

Finally any community project can't be based in the FS2 universe. That sort of thing won't draw in much new blood. Most of the newbies won't have played FS2 and will have a hard time following the heavily detailed plotline. If the community decides to make something new it has to be set in a universe differnet from FS2 so that we can attract newbies. ...

This is eerily similar to what I posted in the staff forum...

[Black Wolf]

Hell, if you want a community project to get behind TIs always looking for permanant FREDders:p.

More seriously you do have to consider the pitfalls as well as the benefits of a community project. It locks up a lot of talent for one thing, and could result in a massive even drier spot for the year or so its in development when nothing would get released. Equally, getting behind currently existing campaigns would mean you'd be percieved as favouritism - plus I doubt there's a single talented individual not already working on some campaigns - who exactly would be doing this getting behind?

TCs are good to get behind yes, but without ca campaign, they're pretty models, nothing more (and if they're designed to look like familiar models anyway, it's noit exactly something new, is it?)
.
I might seem to be pessimistic, but I'm not trying to be - instead I'm being realistic - if you're willing to risk being accused of favouritism, then get behind a few campaigns of your choice, and offer your services (and I'm talking to every single person on the board, as individuals, not some supposed untapped group with a tonne of free time). If not, pimp FS2 on other boards, bring them here. We need them (BTW - does the HOTU release have FRED2? If not, we may want to make it (and the [V] walkthrough) readily available)

[Tiara]

*has applied to be Inferno Fredder a few days ago*

[J.F.K.]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
You know, this is an awful lot of fine sentiment, but I get the feeling that this isn't exactly the first time someone's stood up and said "I know! We can save the game with a community project!" and everyone got together and said "Yes!" and exactly ****-all happened. Unless something's actually done about it- and by that I mean the admins laying the smack down and deleting any campaign that isn't actively, and heavily, worked on, regardless of lame excuses and screaming by project leaders about how their baby is getting killed, exactly ****-all is about to happen again. And the way this forum's going, I don't see that happening. Everyone's gotten too comfortable doing nothing and then going on about how important it is, and the admins are no longer, ah, junta-like enough to make this **** happen (no offense:D ). Hell, most other forums I woulda gotten a month's ban for the David Copperfield thing- not that I'm recommending it now or ever, I'm just saying that I was surprised when nothing happened then, that Razor's never been properly taught to show respect, that the admins themselves are among the major spammers now. Anarchist that I am, I love what it's done for the forum, but amateur historian and psychologist that I am, I know dictatorships are the way to get people to do ****.

Bing. You beat me to it. The one trend I've picked up since being here is that things here are so relaxed. That's nice for a forum, but not for a production team.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Black Wolf
More seriously you do have to consider the pitfalls as well as the benefits of a community project. It locks up a lot of talent for one thing, and could result in a massive even drier spot for the year or so its in development when nothing would get released. Equally, getting behind currently existing campaigns would mean you'd be percieved as favouritism - plus I doubt there's a single talented individual not already working on some campaigns - who exactly would be doing this getting behind?

TCs are good to get behind yes, but without ca campaign, they're pretty models, nothing more (and if they're designed to look like familiar models anyway, it's noit exactly something new, is it?)
.
I might seem to be pessimistic, but I'm not trying to be - instead I'm being realistic - if you're willing to risk being accused of favouritism, then get behind a few campaigns of your choice, and offer your services (and I'm talking to every single person on the board, as individuals, not some supposed untapped group with a tonne of free time). If not, pimp FS2 on other boards, bring them here. We need them (BTW - does the HOTU release have FRED2? If not, we may want to make it (and the [V] walkthrough) readily available)

I take your point BW. In fact I don't agree with community projects largely for the reasons you've stated. However it sounds like a lot of people do want to do one.

What I'm basically asking is that instead of trying to get together some new community project which will never help the community from dying we simply stop carping on all the time at the SCP to implement this new function or that new function.
  Instead we point them at any project which will draw in new blood and say "Make that work first - I'll wait until they draw in new people to play my mod before I start asking for large amounts of your time"
 Anything we do implement in FS_open for B5 or Star Wars will be very useful for the rest of us anyway.

If you want a community project that's what you should do rather than splitting the valuable time of everyone here even further for no large effect.

[Unknown Target]

Originally posted by karajorma



Besides why are you bothering to drum up support for your newer version of FS : forever if you don't think anyone will be around in a year to play it?

Oh, so it's my project. Sorry, I thought it was the community's. I just started the thread for it, because I'm trying to take the first steps in order to continue the Freespace line. A newer version of FS would draw MORE players, because of the fact that it has a new engine (don't fool yourself, most people only look at screenshots to judge a game, especially the armchair 12-13 year old who just wants to blow stuff up), and more cool-looking ships.
FS is getting old, and it's only getting older. Don't believe me?


Here's an example of an old game that eventually decayed into nothing:

Jane's Fleet Command.

Here's two examples of old games that got more than a couple of MODs, it got a whole community project behind them:

Falcon 4.0

Battlezone 2

[Unknown Target]

And, on a side note, please excuse me for not being a pessimest, but what I say is true. I've seen it happen elsewhere.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by Hunt Smacker
Considering Descent 3 sold 60,000 copies worldwide (which is pretty dead), and Freespace 2 sold less than 30,000, I'm surprised there is anything going on here at all. In all truth, I would say this is FAR from dead when you look at the statistics !

Freespace 2 sold nearly 100 000 units. 93 000, AFAIK. I've seen the statistics for it on a page posted here about a year ago. (btw, FS1 made only 150 000)

[CP5670]

Interesting discussion here, but I am not sure why this has suddenly become such an urgent issue. Progress as of late seems to be just fine; the SCP has been coming along nicely, the three Freespace-related forums are fairly lively and I see a good bit of activity in some of the project forums too. This is sort of the exam period for the students among us, so the speed of things should pick up noticeably in a week or two.

I don't think that we can realistically have a single big campaign however. One of the reasons for the numerous disparate campaign projects instead of one big community effort is the heavily open-ended storyline of FS2, which causes everyone to have their own ideas on what should happen next. Notice that the source code editing, which does not need any story or such things, has essentially become centered in one community-wide project and we don't have ten major SCPs out there. Having everyone work on one of the existing projects wouldn't work for the reasons already given about which project to choose.

As for my own project, PI, things have been coming along slowly due to less free time for me but it's certainly still progressing forward. I have no intention of giving up on this; I have come much too far to turn back on this now and I enjoy building these missions anyway. One thing I would like to know is an estimate of how many people would play any of these campaigns when released. I for one have played the things released so far a number of times each and will continue that but what about everyone else?

[redsniper]

I know I'll keep playing FS2 until it's so old it won't work on any modern computers

[diamondgeezer]

Righty, bin thinking about this today, and here're some points (mainly for the HLP admins to think about, if you please):

1. Try searching for 'FreeSpace 2'. I doubt you'll find HLP on the first page of results. That could really use fixing, though it might need V's help since most results are the V site

2. HLP needs major, shamless pimpage, in as many places as possible. I'm no intarweb expert, but you admins are - however you do it, you should spam the **** out of the gaming community with HLP adverts

3. The HOTU thing needs a massive great 'Get FS2 for free here!!!!' banner or something, on the HLP mainpage. Make it bloody obvious to any casual surfers that they can get the game engine for free and mod the **** out of it

4. Thinking about it some more, the voices and hi-res art at least should be made available somehow. Perhaps you admins should seriously look in to that P2P idea, or find someone with, say, twin T3 lines who could spare the bandwith

5. All mod websites need to make a similar effort to majorly pimp the HOTU download. Like a huge banner advertising it.

6. The HLP mainpage needs more regular updating. Windrunner says he reports all the news that's PM'ed to him... well to be honest a bit more effort of everyone's part would be handy. Tiara, your Azrael skin should have been a news item. Or the crops of screenshots that have sprung up lately. Every new skin, mission or model should be mentioned on the main page, and reviews would be cool too, like a skin of the week section. And a little bit more info in news items, rather than one line saying 'click here' (note, this is nothing against you personally, Windruner). Even something purely spammy, like a weekly grudgematch, would help to keep HLP ticking over and looking fresh up front. I'm not even going to start about the pic of the week...

[EDIt]
7. Oh yes, just thought of another one - what about that jobs/request board? Not a forum to be spamemd and flamed, but simply a board of adverts. Fancy some FREDding but not sure who's in need of staff? Check the board under 'wanted'. Looking for a texturer? Check the 'for hire' section. Want someone to model a ship you saw in a movie? Place an ad in under 'requests'. You see an ad that interests you, you click it and get a brief description with clear and easy contact details. People can delete their adverts whenever they like (ie when the advert is answered or no longer valid), and ads can be deleted automatically if not renewed by the placer every X number of weeks. I personally think this is a bloody good idea.



K, that'll do for now. More to follow, perhaps...

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
'Tius just up there - go look you lazy buggers

These are some excellent Ideas.

*Goes to add HOTU anner to the TI site*

[Petrarch of the VBB]

I keep pimping FS on the PCGamer forums, but they're not interested, set of bloody Quake-Heads.

[diamondgeezer]

Originally posted by Black Wolf
These are some excellent Ideas.*

Thanks. I had them while I was at work, instead of concentraing on not bandsawing my fingers off.

Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
I keep pimping FS on the PCGamer forums, but they're not interested, set of bloody Quake-Heads.

There's no hope for some people

[Black Wolf]

Will be going up (linked to http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=4150 ) on the TI site tomorrow. Feel Free to add it to your own campaign sites as well if you want to.

[diamondgeezer]

I shall indeed. And I've added my site to the S:AAB webring as well. Hoo-rah!

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Righty, bin thinking about this today, and here're some points (mainly for the HLP admins to think about, if you please):

1. Try searching for 'FreeSpace 2'. I doubt you'll find HLP on the first page of results. That could really use fixing, though it might need V's help since most results are the V site

2. HLP needs major, shamless pimpage, in as many places as possible. I'm no intarweb expert, but you admins are - however you do it, you should spam the **** out of the gaming community with HLP adverts

3. The HOTU thing needs a massive great 'Get FS2 for free here!!!!' banner or something, on the HLP mainpage. Make it bloody obvious to any casual surfers that they can get the game engine for free and mod the **** out of it

4. Thinking about it some more, the voices and hi-res art at least should be made available somehow. Perhaps you admins should seriously look in to that P2P idea, or find someone with, say, twin T3 lines who could spare the bandwith

5. All mod websites need to make a similar effort to majorly pimp the HOTU download. Like a huge banner advertising it.

6. The HLP mainpage needs more regular updating. Windrunner says he reports all the news that's PM'ed to him... well to be honest a bit more effort of everyone's part would be handy. Tiara, your Azrael skin should have been a news item. Or the crops of screenshots that have sprung up lately. Every new skin, mission or model should be mentioned on the main page, and reviews would be cool too, like a skin of the week section. And a little bit more info in news items, rather than one line saying 'click here' (note, this is nothing against you personally, Windruner). Even something purely spammy, like a weekly grudgematch, would help to keep HLP ticking over and looking fresh up front. I'm not even going to start about the pic of the week...

[EDIt]
7. Oh yes, just thought of another one - what about that jobs/request board? Not a forum to be spamemd and flamed, but simply a board of adverts. Fancy some FREDding but not sure who's in need of staff? Check the board under 'wanted'. Looking for a texturer? Check the 'for hire' section. Want someone to model a ship you saw in a movie? Place an ad in under 'requests'. You see an ad that interests you, you click it and get a brief description with clear and easy contact details. People can delete their adverts whenever they like (ie when the advert is answered or no longer valid), and ads can be deleted automatically if not renewed by the placer every X number of weeks. I personally think this is a bloody good idea.



K, that'll do for now. More to follow, perhaps...

1. Yeah, I know. Sad, ain't it? I emailed V about being included on their fansite list, but haven't gotten a reply. I'm also going to be educating myself on the varagries (sp?) of search-engine optimisation for some work-related stuff, but that's knowledge I'll be able to put to good use on the HLP site, for sure.

2. We will probably be putting up ads in the Gamespy ad ring or whatever it's called when we get around to making a good one.

3. Very good point. I think I'll actually do that tonight.

4. Why can't we make the ISO's available through a Fileplanet/3DDownloads link that can't be found by simply browsing the available downloads (to answer the Liscence Agreement requirement that it can be freely copied for friends and aquaintances, etc etc)?

5. *cracks whip over MOD site webmasters*

6. The issue is known, and we're addressing it. Worry not.

7. Hmm... I was integrating that into the main site a while back, but I think the army interfered or something and I forgot about it. I'll try to get back into getting it to work ASAP. Thanks for the reminder.

[HotSnoJ]

[glow=blue]LiberCapacitas duo quiasemper[/glow]
(FreeSpace 2 Forever)

I am (hopefully) always going to be a fan of FS2. I think it's one of the major space combat sims ever to hit shelves. Not only is the game great but it is also (if you are working with the orginal file by :V: ) easy to make missions/campaigns for. I know of no other game that is so simple to do that with.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Black Wolf


Will be going up (linked to http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=4150 ) on the TI site tomorrow. Feel Free to add it to your own campaign sites as well if you want to.

I'd like to publically thank Black Wolf for the great banner, which now features prominently on the main page.

[aldo_14]

We need to find some way of reducing the division of effort in the community, without forcing people to stop working... I'd suggest setting a set of recommendations (from the community 'luminaries') about staffing levels for a campaing, i.e.

5 new ships, 20 missions - 3 FREDers, 1 modeller, 1 weapons maker, 1 animator

To try and encourage people to join with existing campaigns, rather than start overly ambitious and ultimately impossible projects - I've learnt this through my work on Reci.