[Sandwich]

Originally posted by deep_eyes



BOB SPEAKS THE TRUTH lol... hell if we guys keep making uber sized ships that can be piloted, of course were gonna have a BIG POV.

Has nothing to do - table-hack the Colossus to be player-flyable - the viewpoint doesn't change.

Originally posted by Deepblue
For those who have 3ds max the perspective in freespace is almost like taking the perspective view and really flattening it out.

This is essentially the root of the issue... the lens angle. Anyone recall in Fellowship of the Ring (#1), where Frodo looks down the path and yells at everyone to get off the road? The wind then starts blowing down the path, and the camera lens changes drastically, from what to what I don't know, but it's something like from 28 (wide) to 150+ (tele)... or perhaps the reverese. Anyway, that's the kind of change we want to see in-game.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Deepblue
For those who have 3ds max the perspective in freespace is almost like taking the perspective view and really flattening it out.

then, I can make things look huge in max, w/o having the FOV limited... where's the damn problem?
Btw, I experimented a lot, in max. and you seem to not like fishview. well I tell you, if set up right ( not exagerated ala alien3 ), it's just great. that makes you feel go much faster than with your plain flat view ( on the sides of the screen, there's an effect of acceleration ), while it remains easy to aim ( the center of the screen remains normal ). Some games used that trick, like the ( otherwise plain ) Taxi game, or Eve online.

[KARMA]

I think in q3 is possible to change the fov with the config.
I saw some in game shots with fov modified, and in some of them things were looking wrong, but this was caused by the fov enlarged to see a wider area, so the things that in real world should be at your sides, were at the borders of the monitor, generating a strange effect, expecially during movements, like when you read a newspaper with a lens.
The point is that we don't want to enlarge the fov, but to reduce it, so the question remains: are those weird effects related to the engine that can't handle without problems different fovs, or simply it looks different and unusual? I dare the first thing from what bob said, but I'd like to see some pics:)

[TopAce]

Originally posted by Sandwich

Has nothing to do - table-hack the Colossus to be player-flyable - the viewpoint doesn't change.

That's right, despite you are sitting in an Ursa, or the Colossus, you still have the same sight of view.

And of course it is a point how close you are sitting to the window.

[KARMA]

Originally posted by Sandwich


I want a ginormous 1.6 km Star Destroyer!!!

oh...
and I'd like to see a Star destroyer that looks like a Star destroyer :devil:

[TopAce]

Originally posted by KARMA

oh...
and I'd like to see a Star destroyer that looks like a Star destroyer :devil:

Why? Isn't SW-C's StarDest looking like a Star destroyer? or the one of XWA?

[FrancisA]

Vilkacis' post comparing the external camera view of a turret with the cockpit view really hit it home for me.  I didn't think that the problem could possibly _just_ be the cockpit camera, but I guess it is.  I completely misdiagnosed the problem.

It looks like the cockpit camera has collapsed depth, like looking through a telephoto lens.  I don't think that's _entirely_ a function of fov, and unless it's something bigger than 90, I'd hesitate to make it smaller.

There must be some reason why Volition did that skewing of the camera, though, because they did try to make massive looking ships a unique point of the game.  Perhaps combat feels more distant and less involving?  Or you never get close enough to see any detail on fighters?

Is it possible to exagerate distances without playing with fov?  Like maybe applying some scalar factor to vertices' Z, which gets bigger the further it is from the camera?  Altering geometry in-game is a pretty violent thing to do, though.

I guess I should just wait and see what results others get from playing with the camera.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by FrancisA
There must be some reason why Volition did that skewing of the camera, though, because they did try to make massive looking ships a unique point of the game.  Perhaps combat feels more distant and less involving?  Or you never get close enough to see any detail on fighters?

If I remember correctly it was done so that you could see more of the battlefield without having to use the pov-hat on your joystick.
What you can see is supposed to be what you could see by turning your head slightly left or right.

[Deepblue]

Or maybe the source coders can play around with the scales. Say instead of having something 300 long you could scale it say by 3 and still call it 300 long.

Example:
_________
_________
300

into

_____________________________


_____________________________
300(900)

[Sandwich]

No no no... view render change or nothing...I won't have any scale hacks in this.

If we could duplicate the FOV/lens mm/whatever of XWA, it'd be perfect.

[Exarch]

It'll be extremely noticable if the scale is changed. If you suddenly take a minute to fly the length of an orion at 100ms instead of the 20secs it's supposed to take at that speed, you notice something is wrong. As I touched upon a bit earlier, that's the advantage for the x-wing games in having an speed measure that's not exactly known, they can toy around with how fast you move all they like and you won't be able to calculate if you're going too fast or not

[LAW ENFORCER]

I am DAMN sure it wont take any long to fly, its not altering the speed just what it LOOKS like


and if altering the view does change the speed then I really need to learn some and forget some physics  

[Exarch]

My mistake, should have specified it - My reply was to Deepblue's suggestion about making everything 3x as big instead of playing with the view.

[Deepblue]

And the same thing would be applied to the speed making it all balenced. Velocity mod anyone?

[Vilkacis]

Originally posted by Exarch
It'll be extremely noticable if the scale is changed. If you suddenly take a minute to fly the length of an orion at 100ms instead of the 20secs it's supposed to take at that speed, you notice something is wrong. As I touched upon a bit earlier, that's the advantage for the x-wing games in having an speed measure that's not exactly known, they can toy around with how fast you move all they like and you won't be able to calculate if you're going too fast or not

While we're at it did you ever notice that FS ship are going awfully slow in comparison to today's craft. I mean 90ms max speed, that's not even mach 1.

[Deepblue]

Originally posted by Deepblue
Velocity mod anyone?

[Exarch]

Yeah they definitely do go slow. But I always just imagine it's a relative velocity and otherwise ignore it sorta like when you see a space shuttle placing a satelite into orbit - they're only moving at 5ms compared to each other after release, but they're actually moving at more like 10.000 compared to a spot on earth.

[Flipside]

Besides, simply multiplying size factors will increase the size of the fighters and bombers as well It is definately the viewing angle that is at fault, it's wide-angle, and, I think, slightly zoomed, I think this is because, in part, of the fact that even the large 30m fighters would appear quite small at moderate distances if the FOV were set to the correct level.

Flipside

[Nico]

Originally posted by Exarch
Yeah they definitely do go slow. But I always just imagine it's a relative velocity and otherwise ignore it sorta like when you see a space shuttle placing a satelite into orbit - they're only moving at 5ms compared to each other after release, but they're actually moving at more like 10.000 compared to a spot on earth.

yeah, but make one of them turn around, and it won't be the same anymore

Flipside: fighters and bombers look small too. they'er at least 20 meters long. do you really think that if you were to collide with such big things, they wouldn't fill completly your forward view?
when I play FS2, I feel like fighting remote controled toys, not the real thing

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Flipside
I think this is because, in part, of the fact that even the large 30m fighters would appear quite small at moderate distances if the FOV were set to the correct level.

Actually I'd imagine that resetting the fov to a more accurate number would probably make fighters bigger when close up and remain a similar size or slightly larger when further away.