Author Topic: It's almost here! (teh passion)  (Read 19317 times)

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Offline Setekh

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Quote
Originally posted by icespeed
rather, lotr was a reflection of the bible...


At least, of Biblical imagery and concepts. Tolkien quite plainly stated that his universe was not meant to reflect reality in any way, especially allegorically. But agreed, there are too many Biblical elements in LOTR to be coincidental.
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Offline Stryke 9

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Partly because a significant part of the Bible was derived from the same folktales and mythos as LOTR is based off of. History's full of wars and magical freaks, particularly oral history.

 

Offline icespeed

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well, see, that depends on what you think the sources were... I think the Bible was actually the source of a lot of those tales and myths and things... not in its present form, of course, but in the form of stories and oral tradition and all that circulating around... Which then got twisted and turned until they bear less resemblance to Biblical tales...
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Offline Kazan

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Originally posted by Liberator
Kaz, this is gonna sound like a stupid question, but what happened to you in the past that had caused you to dislike Christians so fervently?


It's not too stupid of a question - but it does assume that it has done something ill against me, though I won't refute it having done ill against me because it has.  This is not my reason for disliking christianity

I dislike ALL religion, ALL supernaturalism, ALL superstition, et cetera

Any belief without a base in logic and evidence is repugnant especially when raised to the status of religion.  When that belief is to descriminate it passes the line from repugnancy to reprehenisbility

Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
Also, for the record, most good Christians mean both definitions when they say Faith.


I'll agree with that statement
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Offline mikhael

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Quote
Originally posted by icespeed
well, see, that depends on what you think the sources were... I think the Bible was actually the source of a lot of those tales and myths and things... not in its present form, of course, but in the form of stories and oral tradition and all that circulating around... Which then got twisted and turned until they bear less resemblance to Biblical tales...


I'd buy that, icespeed, except that some of the mythology that Tolkien was using was pre-christian in origin, not post-christian. Besides, anthropologically, can trace a lot of the bible back to Babylonian and Sumerian oral (written in the case of babylonian) traditions. One of the fascinating things about the devolpment of christianity is how it absorbed mythologies from other cultures (not was absorbed by those cultures).
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Offline icespeed

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just because something isn't written down doesn't mean it doesn't predate something else that was written down.

does that make sense?
$quot;Let your light shine before men...$quot;
Matthew 5:16

When I graduate, I'm going to be a doctor, and people are going to come to me looking for treatment and prescription drugs, and I'm going to give it to them. Is anyone scared yet?

$quot;If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.$quot; Romans 10:9

 

Offline Kazan

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icespeed: oral tradition is laced with legendinization
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Offline Stryke 9

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Not really. I assume you're referring to the time the Bible spent as a series of oral traditions. Which are, indeed, inherited from the Sumerians and so on. Which, if anything, lends credence to the idea that the Bible is historically accurate to some degree.

 

Offline icespeed

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shrugs

im not an expert and if i try to say anything kazan will immediately jump on it for not having citations and references and all that, so... i won't.
$quot;Let your light shine before men...$quot;
Matthew 5:16

When I graduate, I'm going to be a doctor, and people are going to come to me looking for treatment and prescription drugs, and I'm going to give it to them. Is anyone scared yet?

$quot;If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.$quot; Romans 10:9

 

Offline an0n

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The point I was trying to make and that you've all completely missed is that the Bible is a load of ****. It's a fairytale. It's the rambling of the bunch of Trekkies who hadn't yet encountered sci-fi so latched onto the entertaining shinanegins of the fictional son of a fictional God.

The entire Bible is just once long series of Star Wars books.

It's Honorverse.

It's a ton of books set around a similar original theme and designed to get across the very turbulent life of the fictional son of God. It's one huge ****ing collection of Easops Fables.
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Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by an0n
And, yes, God DOES need a reason.


No, an0n... it seems to me that you need a reason. You simply cannot accept that GOD, the Being who created all of reality, loves YOU.
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Offline Bobboau

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so God doesn't need a reason?
I thought he had a plan of some sort,
...that he won't tell anyone about...
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Offline mikhael

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Originally posted by Sandwich


No, an0n... it seems to me that you need a reason. You simply cannot accept that GOD, the Being who created all of reality, loves YOU.


You're slipping perilously close to the edge of preaching, Sandwich.
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Offline Ransom

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...and an0n gives a perfect example of how arrogant and self-righteous athiests can get. I'm an athiest myself though, but I don't go around insulting everyone's beliefs. There's nothing wrong with intensely despising religion, but to be so openly abusive about it is, in my opinion, simply wrong.

 

Offline Setekh

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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Not really. I assume you're referring to the time the Bible spent as a series of oral traditions. Which are, indeed, inherited from the Sumerians and so on. Which, if anything, lends credence to the idea that the Bible is historically accurate to some degree.


...which I was just about to say. The legendisation would never have gotten very far even for those who really wanted to change the story about who Jesus was, because there were still eyewitnesses alive who would have disputed the story being told - "it wasn't like that, I was there, this is what happened". And before the eyewitness generation was gone, most of the New Testament had already been written.

I think I'll also nip in the bud the objection that parts of the New Testament (namely, the synoptic gospels) were written much later on and then attributed to more famous names. This misses the fact that it would have been quite foolish to attribute the gospels to characters like Matthew, Mark and Luke. Matthew, a tax-collector, the most infamous of the apostles after Judas Iscariot; Mark and Luke, who were not even apostles. The facts point to them being factual accounts carried on from the oral tradition of eyewitnesses, about which there was no question of whom the authors were.
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Offline aldo_14

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Originally posted by Ransom Arceihn
...and an0n gives a perfect example of how arrogant and self-righteous athiests can get. I'm an athiest myself though, but I don't go around insulting everyone's beliefs. There's nothing wrong with intensely despising religion, but to be so openly abusive about it is, in my opinion, simply wrong.


"the only we cannot tolerate, is intolerance itself"

(I think that's a quote.....sounds familiar enought to be one)

 

Offline an0n

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So I'm not allowed to say you're wrong because you don't think you are yet can't prove you aren't?

What kinda ****ed-up reasoning is that?

It's thinking like that that lead to the Dark Ages.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
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Offline Liberator

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So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

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Offline Kazan

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Setekh your logic for trying to say they are factual accounts are dubious at most - and the first undubiously dated paprys dates to the third century CE

==============

What is it with some of you people thinking "tolerance" includes respecting an opinion - no you must only respect their right to have an opinion - you do not have to respect the opinion.   There are more invalid BS opinions floating aroud the world then there are justifiable, logical opinions.
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
For those who are interested, The Passion of the Christ has made $125 million in the first week.


Does that mean a sequel is being made, then?  Or an exclusive line of toys?