[Drew]

mind pointing out ur non biased news sources then?

[mikhael]

Personally, I try to follow the big three (Fox, CNN, MSNBC) and CSPAN. I also follow BBC Worldwide and a bunch of Australian news sources. I wish I could read spanish, french and german so I could follow their sources too.

I believe in being informed. If someone running my country does a good job, I want to know. If someone running my country does a bad job, I want to know. I need as much information as possible so I can form and informed and intelligent opinion. I very much dislike people who mindlessly parrot what media mouthpieces tell them without making an effort investigate the claims from multiple angles.

[an0n]

I tend to read everything, regardless of how biased it may or may not be. That way you get all the facts, not just the ones that one side wants you to know, or that the liberals think is worth mentioning. Then I just take a general view of it all.

If 15/20 news sources from across the geographical and political spectrum say Bush is a retard, I'm inclined to believe them.

[Drew]

thank goodnees america was never intended to be run by the absolute majority

[Liberator]

Originally posted by an0n
If 15/20 news sources from across the geographical and political spectrum say Bush is a retard, I'm inclined to believe them.

You'd think, but of those 20, 18 are probably biased against Bush specifically and Conservatives/Republicans/Christians in general.  Especially Christians, between us and Jews, we're the only social groupw that it's okay to hate in America, everybody else is .

[mikhael]

Oh, the poor, put upon Right! With the liberal bias in the world media, they can't catch a break, can they? Besides the fact that the overwhelming tone of reporting in the US national media outlets over three of the last four years was overwhelmingly right-biased, those poor conservatives never get any good publicity!

Please.

Who hates Christians? Hell, I married one. And since when is hating jews tolerated by anyone but redneck yokels who dress up in Klan robes and vote Republican?

[an0n]

And on the "everyone hates Christians note": If 4 billion people tell you Christianity is wrong, it's wrong.

[Stryke 9]

Ah, the old instant moral high ground: When you can't justify yourself any other way, feign oppression.

Come on. When you're talking about a demographic that comprises about 80% of the country, and controls a comparable portion of the world's wealth and power, whining about how put upon you lot are goes beyond lying to yourself into the realm of self-inflicted delusion that usually accompanies psychoactive drugs. For the record, Liberator, I don't think you've seen a single actual liberal in your entire goddamned life, and wouldn't even be interested in politics but for your dire need to hate and fear someone, anyone, and to be involved in the sort of deranged witch-hunt mentality you've given a textbook case of in these recent threads. If you really need your self-pitying fear trip so badly, go ahead and wallow in your fantasies, but spare us the horse****. Most of us have to deal with the real world, and it's interesting enough for us.

[Liberator]

mik, you're just funny sometimes.  I especially like how you make the Mainstream Media seem like altar boys and the Big, Bad Republicans are evil and have dark purposes in mind.  While I will admit to some of my side to being less than completely honorable, the honorable ones keep a pretty decent handle on them.  The Left, on the other hand, contains men that we know(although we can't prove it sufficiently to incarcerate them) participated in at least one murder and laundered large sums of money.  Pick a scandal and the odds are it is about Dems or their cronies.

The only way to really mitigate the whole situation is to institute term limits for all elected Federal representatives and certain appointed positions.  This is the only place where the Founders outright failed to provide a solouion, as they likely could not conceive of the thought of career politicans.

Of course, it would never pass, it destroys the powerbase of all sides to thoroughly.

[Kazan]

I'm starting to think liberator needs psychological help.... really really really really really really REALLY badly

[Liberator]

Why?  Because I favor a policy that would remove the power from Washington and force ALL those deadbeats(Dems and Republicans) to get a REAL job?

Most, if not all, the Founders felt that Public Service was important, but that it should be done and then the Servant return to his private life.  They never gave thought to someone making their life's work politics.  Term Limits would force the "Public Servants" to return to their private lives in a time when Career Politicians are the rule not the exception.

The reason you guys are making so many personal attacks is because you are put off by a Social/Fiscal/Political Conservative who isn't afraid to take a stand against the constant din of Extremist Left Wing propgandist pap that seems to be the rule.  I believe in and respect the idea that the average American if given the choice doesn't need the Government, the ACLU, or the God - damned United Nations interfereing in the lives.

The purpose of the United States Government is to:

"promote the general welfare"

See that the public is well educated in the Reading, Writing, Mathematics and the Sciences.  This and no more.  It is not the Government's job to dole out checks to deadbeats, interfere in the private lives of citizens unless required to

"establish justice, insure domestic tranquility"

Institute a system of fair, but impartial laws whose sole purpose is to protect the private American citizen from the less savory members of society, whether they wear a mask or a suit

"provide for the common defense"

Establish a standing military capable of defending American citizens from all external threats, whether they wear silk gloves or armored gauntlets

"secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity"

Take or stay action which would place undue hardship on the American Citizen.

to do these things, the Government is given LIMITED power to levy taxes.  Anything that goes beyond these powers and duties is not allowed, and should be done away with.

[Stryke 9]

Um, he's actually right on that point, Kaz. There were originally specific provisions to prevent career politicians in the Constitution, and it's pretty apparent that most of the founders would have found the lawyers running things these days perfectly repugnant. With good reason, too. Turning politics into a professional field closed to those who aren't shamans of the practise essentially completely takes power out of the hands of the people and puts it solidly in the hands of the select few, making the nation a permanent oligarchy of the worst sort.

[Kazan]

Liberator: because you're a slobbering at the mouth like a rabid dog right wing nut who tries to act opprossed when he's trying to get away with oppressing other people because their lives don't agree with his holy book

because you have a huge victim complex and you are showing every sign of the addictive delusion accompanied with psychoactive drugs.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Liberator
mik, you're just funny sometimes.  I especially like how you make the Mainstream Media seem like altar boys and the Big, Bad Republicans are evil and have dark purposes in mind.

Altar boys? Hardly. They pander to the right more often than not. A good example is during the 2000 election run up. And Republicans aren't evil. I agree with some of their values and disagree with others. I don't automatically assume 'republican==bad'.

 While I will admit to some of my side to being less than completely honorable, the honorable ones keep a pretty decent handle on them.  The Left, on the other hand, contains men that we know(although we can't prove it sufficiently to incarcerate them) participated in at least one murder and laundered large sums of money.  Pick a scandal and the odds are it is about Dems or their cronies.

I pick... Bush's desertion. I pick the fastest growing, largest deficit in the history of the country. I pick Bush's lies about tax cuts for the richest 10% of the country. I pick the criminal war in Iraq. I pick Cheney's links to Halliburton. Oh wait. Those are all Bush administration scandals. Do those count as Democrats? Sure, the Democrats have been involved in scandals, but when was the last time a Democrat lied and got 581 american soldiers killed, the bulk of which died after the man lied and said the war was over?

This is the only place where the Founders outright failed to provide a solouion, as they likely could not conceive of the thought of career politicans.

Are you sure about that? because that seems like a contradiction of this:

Originally posted by Liberator
No, I want them to rule based on the literal meaning of the law with a little common sense.  No shades of gray meaning or "They actually meant...".

The Founders were among the most intelligent men of their time, I trust them to write exactly what they meant.

In logic, we call that 'contradiction'.

[Drew]

Originally posted by mikhael

I pick... Bush's desertion. I pick the fastest growing, largest deficit in the history of the country. I pick Bush's lies about tax cuts for the richest 10% of the country. I pick the criminal war in Iraq. I pick Cheney's links to Halliburton. Oh wait. Those are all Bush administration scandals. Do those count as Democrats? Sure, the Democrats have been involved in scandals, but when was the last time a Democrat lied and got 581 american soldiers killed, the bulk of which died after the man lied and said the war was over?

*sigh*
Bush's "desertion", just a smear tactic. It was a claim that was never proven true. And proven false IIRC.

about the defecit
http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=148

About the tax cuts. Dont act like they havnt helped stimulate the economy. Thats why the defecit isnt as bad as the Dems make it out to be. "The most important measure is the size relative to the nation’s economic output, what economists call Gross Domestic Product or GDP"

im gonna have to research that a little more tho.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Drew

*sigh*
Bush's "desertion", just a smear tactic. It was a claim that was never proven true. And proven false IIRC.

Really? Was that since last night? See, Liberator tried to say it had been 'proven false', too. The problem is, however, that it hasn't been proven false. So, as show me the money. Let's see the proof. I'll be right here waiting.

[Stryke 9]

No, it was never "proven false". Bush promised to release his entire record, he didn't, the next day his staffers started attacking the newspapers for requesting it in the first place, the only thing ever released as "proof" was a single document showing he showed up for a dental check one day. Being that it's impossible to prove the nonexistence of something, the thoroughness with which Bush has failed to provide any factual evidence of his attendance is as close as it's possible to get, and closer than would really be needed to cast reasonable doubt.

Of course, that's even before you factor in the allegations that his record was deliberately destroyed or hidden when the first inquiries began. They're unproven, mostly anecdotal evidence from purported witnesses, so we won't get into that, it's sufficient that he's so spectacularly failed to answer questions that it's painfully obvious he's hiding a piss-poor record.


Funny link. I like how it basically says that while Bush sucks, Reagan and Daddy Bush may have sucked worse. Are you sure that's the message you were pushing, there?

[Drew]

Originally posted by Stryke 9
No, it was never "proven false". Bush promised to release his entire record, he didn't, the next day his staffers started attacking the newspapers for requesting it in the first place, the only thing ever released as "proof" was a single document showing he showed up for a dental check one day. Being that it's impossible to prove the nonexistence of something, the thoroughness with which Bush has failed to provide any factual evidence of his attendance is as close as it's possible to get, and closer than would really be needed to cast reasonable doubt.

Of course, that's even before you factor in the allegations that his record was deliberately destroyed or hidden when the first inquiries began. They're unproven, mostly anecdotal evidence from purported witnesses, so we won't get into that, it's sufficient that he's so spectacularly failed to answer questions that it's painfully obvious he's hiding a piss-poor record.

prove it. tell me where u got that info from. i heard quite the opposite. from several sources actually.

[mikhael]

Quote the sources. The only source I have is the one single piece of paper that Bush released, the dental appointment.

If you'd like I can take a photo of a real service record (mine) and show you just what kind of documentation can be found within that can prove where someone was and that they were doing their duty.

See, Drew, this is a case where Bush ran up into a hard shoal of details. Service records are, you know, important. The government keeps three copies of your service record after you leave service. The paper copy (which is destroyed after a certain amount of time) and a copy on microfilm and another on microfiche.

If Bush has lost the paperwork that shows he was doing his duty, he can, like every other serviceman, contact the Veteran's Administration and request a copy. Unfortunately, the rest of us can't request his actual service record, so we have to rely on him to do it.

[Stryke 9]

Prove... what? That he released his dental checkup record? That was in the headlines. That he never released anything else? Such is a matter of public record, never mind that that would have hit the headlines for at least a week. That there've been accusations that his record's been deliberately buried? I can recall specifically where I read that, but I'd have to go through more forms than I'd care to to get at the article so I'd rather be clear on what you're demanding first. That lack of evidence to the contrary is the only evidence of nonexistence there is? Well... duh.