[J3Vr6]

I was saying it for the comment of the cubic zarconia, which to me reminds me of the home shopping network.  But if that's your cup of joe, then it's all you.

I gots no problem getting a test tube diamond.  It's actually smart to do so, they're almost perfect.  The only problem with getting one from a lab is that it won't be appraised at a much higher value later in the future than a natural diamond.  And appreciation is a good thing (and let's not start the "well if you're planning on staying together forever you shouldn't be thinking about it's appreciation" cuz then I really will pee on you since you have no concept of the value of money).

And "what are they teaching *kids* these days?"  I'm pushing close to 30, now u make me feel old (empties colostomy bag).  If you think the engagement ring isn't also a symbol of your unity, then we got a different belief in that.  I don't know about you guys, but I don't just give any girl an engagement ring.  To me, you give a girl an engagement ring, and it's your commitment to her that you want her for the rest of your life.    A wedding ring, to me, is just that it's official.  That's why the wedding band is usually just plain, solid platinum or gold (or silver).  But the commitment is still there the moment you propose and slip that rubber.. I mean ring.. on.

And as such, I'm not gonna shop the Home Shopping Network's Suzanne Sommers collection for a $2.99 cubic zarconia ring when I propose to my lady.  If I'm going to be doing something that I plan to only do once in my life, for the person who makes my world a much better place, then I'm going to do it right.

[Flipside]

Heh, the best way I show my partner that I love her is to be there for her when she needs me, believe in her, and know that she believesin me. What's a rock going to tell her that our obvious affection for each other does not? The simple act of being there for your partner is more honest than diamonds, and, believe it or not, it lasts longer.
And she really does prefer Cubic Zircona

[Gortef]

Congrats Kazan

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Flipside
Heh, the best way I show my partner that I love her is to be there for her when she needs me, believe in her, and know that she believesin me. What's a rock going to tell her that our obvious affection for each other does not? The simple act of being there for your partner is more honest than diamonds, and, believe it or not, it lasts longer.
And she really does prefer Cubic Zircona

It's not the rock or the ring, it's what it represents.

The ring represents the unendingness of your love for each other.  

The diamond represents the strength and permanence of the bond that you enter into with the girl.

[Kazan]

Liberator: sing the chorus of Dabeers

you realize nobody thought that until in the 1920s DaBeers sent sales reps around to shows all over the united states and performed the single most successful social hack in history

[Styxx]

Originally posted by ZylonBane


Ah, da beers...

Indeed.

And I never heard of De Beers before reading this thread. What's the whole deal?

[mikhael]

Originally posted by J3Vr6
And "what are they teaching *kids* these days?"  I'm pushing close to 30, now u make me feel old (empties colostomy bag).  If you think the engagement ring isn't also a symbol of your unity, then we got a different belief in that.  I don't know about you guys, but I don't just give any girl an engagement ring.  To me, you give a girl an engagement ring, and it's your commitment to her that you want her for the rest of your life.    A wedding ring, to me, is just that it's official.  That's why the wedding band is usually just plain, solid platinum or gold (or silver).  But the commitment is still there the moment you propose and slip that rubber.. I mean ring.. on.

You kids these days. Close to thirty? Speak up when you GET to thirty.

You're right: the engagement ring IS a symbol of commitment, but its not a symbol of unity. Its a commitment to take the NEXT step and get the wedding ring, the symbol of the union of your two lives. Union... unity... see how it works? The wedding band is a plain circle with no blandishments or fripperies because symbolizes something simple and pure, that requires no decoration: the binding together forever (well in theory) of your lives.

For what its worth, historically, the engagement ring is a relatively new concept, whilst the wedding ring is positively ancient. Kaz is absolutely correct: the whole diamond engagement ring is the secular creation of a consortium to push diamond sales. It has absolutely no symbolic value and certainly no religious basis.

[01010]

Yeah right, the day they stop is the day I'm gone.

[Liberator]

Kaz are you suspious of everybodies motives?

[mikhael]

You should be suspicous of the motives of anyone who wants you to part with two months' salary for ANYTHING. Its called "personal financial responsibility". The sad fact of the world today (and perhaps all time) is that you cannot trust anyone's motives when your loss will be their gain.

Take DeBiers and their ilk. They have a problem: diamonds are A) not really as rare as they make out, and B) people just don't buy diamonds all the time. They want to make money, so what do they do? Induce artificial scarcity, and create an excuse for people to spend money on their product. It works even better if you can tie this excuse to something people have a gut, emotional reaction to. Thus they create the 'diamond engagement ring'. They proclaim, "See, proof of your love! PHAT L3WT ON HER HAND! 0wnt!!!1111" Its pure psychology and advertising.

Kaz knows the score as do I. We just want to keep the world HONEST.

[Unknown Target]

EDIT: Never mind. Boy I seem to be doing this a lot lately.

[SadisticSid]

mik, how is that anything but honest? Social engineering always plays a part in getting consumers to buy 'new' things, such as the whole mobile/cell-phone industry. If DeBeers got to where it is these days by legal (I won't say legitimate, since that's more open to ambiguity) business practises, they deserve their success.

[an0n]

Yup.

If they're willing to try hard enough, good for them.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by SadisticSid
mik, how is that anything but honest? Social engineering always plays a part in getting consumers to buy 'new' things, such as the whole mobile/cell-phone industry. If DeBeers got to where it is these days by legal (I won't say legitimate, since that's more open to ambiguity) business practises, they deserve their success.

In this case I mean 'Honest' as in 'providing an alternative point of view'. Kinda like the President keeps the Congress "honest" with his veto, and Congress keeps the President "honest" by being able to override his veto if necessary. Notice, that I'm not saying that either one is "honest" in the sense that they are "truthful and free from prevarication and falsehood".

Sorry for the confusion.

[Flipside]

My symbol of my love and devotion for my partner is my love and devotion for my partner, it's easy to carry, and if Sharon goes out alone, theres no chance of her being attacked for it

[J3Vr6]

Originally posted by mikhael

You kids these days. Close to thirty? Speak up when you GET to thirty.

Bah, I pee on you.  If we're going to get into a "I'm older than you so I know more about the world and ways of man" I am not only going to pee but poop too, and I had corn last night.

Posted by Mikhael:
You're right: the engagement ring IS a symbol of commitment, but its not a symbol of unity. Its a commitment to take the NEXT step and get the wedding ring, the symbol of the union of your two lives. Union... unity... see how it works?...

It seems we have a different belief in that regard (note, someones belief doesn't necessarily have to be the mainstream). I refer to what I wrote last time on what I believe in:

Originally posted by me:
If you think the engagement ring isn't also a symbol of your unity, then we got a different belief in that. I don't know about you guys, but I don't just give any girl an engagement ring. To me, you give a girl an engagement ring, and it's your commitment to her that you want her for the rest of your life. A wedding ring, to me, is just that it's official.

So it's kosher.  I respect and understand what you're saying, no need to explain how union and unity works.  Engagement, for me, is as important as marriage to me.  If you've commited to marry, then you should have had that commitment since the moment you've been engaged (or you wouldn't have proposed in the first place, no?)  I just feel differently about it than you do.  All is right in the world again, even if we have different views.

Posted by Mikhael:
...the whole diamond engagement ring is the secular creation of a consortium to push diamond sales. It has absolutely no symbolic value and certainly no religious basis. [/B]

That's certainly true.  But that won't stop me from buying one when I propose.  Dabeers has been cornering the market on diamonds, it's practically a monopoly.  Until test tube diamonds become more mainstream, prices for those diamonds won't drop.  Will I be happy by what I pay?  Depends on how much I overpaid or not.  A diamond ring has to also be seen as an investment (at least that will help stomach some of the Mylanta).   Will I spend 2 months salary?  HELL NO, that would be as much as a downpayment on a house.  That's just them trying to guilt you into spending more.


EDIT:  I forgot to close a quote, d'oh me.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Liberator
It's not the rock or the ring, it's what it represents.

The ring represents the unendingness of your love for each other.  

The diamond represents the strength and permanence of the bond that you enter into with the girl.

If all that is 100% how come they don't buy us something?

When the diamond trade started this whole scheme up in the 20's it was one thing but now women work too. Where's the symbol of love for us men?

BTW. When did a engagement ring become 2 months salary? I thought it was only one months worth?

[Liberator]

Men have, socially anyway, always been considered the providers.  A Wife can depend on their Husband for all financial matters and not be chastised.  Husbands who depend on their Wives for support are considered to be bastards of one sort or another.

Last I looked, and this was a while ago, a diamond ring could be had at a local jewelry store for $200-300.  These days, for a man considering marriage and all that comes with it, that shouldn't be a month's salary.

[Shrike]

Why does it have to cost a set amount?

And Kaz, if you didn't like De Beers, why didn't you get a Canadian diamond?

[Kazan]

i honestly don't know who the supplier was - but the diamond industry is all one big cartel