Author Topic: Sheikh Ahmed Yassin killed  (Read 19462 times)

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Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Achmed "Saruman" Yassin Assasinated by Israeli Gunships
Quote
Originally posted by Gank
refugee camps,  


well you know, if arab solidarity had any meaning at all the palestinians would have been taken in by the neighbouring arab states. Instead these states let their arab "brothers" live in squalor so that these nations have a stick (i.e. evil Jooos suppres arabs)  to drum up support with so they can justify repressing their own people.
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Offline Rictor

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Achmed "Saruman" Yassin Assasinated by Israeli Gunships
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Interesting article... I'm quite familiar with the refusenik social group.


Immoral? The author doesn't know what he's talking about, and never will until he serves in the IDF - which, apparently, won't happen.

Like I said before, there are no lack of immoral instances. But that is not the norm.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/404272.html

You claim that the majority of IDF soldiers are compassionate towards the suffering of Palestinian civlians. While I do not fully believe this, I find that its is at the very least possible that this is the truth. Lets assume that you're right.

The fact that the individual is moral does not negate the fact that the actions of the whole are immoral. As the article mentions, and I assume this to be true until some other sources proves otherwise, "Palestinian children are dying daily; 70% of Palestinian requests for ambulances cannot be granted due to restrictions on movement; sick people and pregnant women cannot pass through checkpoints; and Israeli bulldozers tear down one house after another. Israel is currently building a wall which encircles whole towns and villages, separating people from their land and water."

The wall, in and of itself is immoral. But its a rather new invention. The chekpoints, bulldozers, airstrikes and so forth are not.

Alright Sandwich, let me just ask you one thing. Do you doubt that Israel kills as many or more civilians (innocents, not militants) in retailiatory strikes and asassination attempts than Hamas and other militant groups kill in suicide bombings?

And then there is the issue not of killing the few, but of oppressing the many. Life for the average Palestinian living in the Occupied Territories is not, I imagine, very pleasant. A fact that the Wall does little to change. I find it inconcieveable (sp?) that the Israeli people do not see striking similarities between Israel's treatment of Palestinians and their own treatment under the Nazi regime.

The hundreds killed by airstrikes or bullets are nothing compared to the millions living in poverty, squallor and fear. That to me is the greater of the crimes.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2004, 11:49:54 am by 644 »

 

Offline Bobboau

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Achmed "Saruman" Yassin Assasinated by Israeli Gunships
the retailiatory strikes and asassinations arn't aimed at the civilians though, so if you would like to have this move some were why don't you focus some were else.
the "oppressing the many" might be a good angle to go after.
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Offline Gank

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Crazy_Ivan80, A lot of them were. They do get treated like dirt generally everywhere though. Btw the last remark doesnt really make much sense, dont really see how any arab state uses the palestinian problem as an excuse to repress their own people. Dont see them using any excuse really.

Bobbaou, the retaliatory strikes may not have been aimed at civilians, but they are taken with the knowledge that civilians will die. And seeing as all Israelis must serve in the army reserves until the age of forty, a suicide bomb on a bus or nightclub could technically be considered a military target, with the risk of collateral damage.

Styxx, whatever.

Sandwich, she talked to a lot of people over there, her time was split evenly between sightseeing in Israel proper and the West Bank. She did say she found the Israelis difficult to talk to though, distainful would be a polite way of putting it. The people she actually interviewed were mostly palestinian kids, thats what the documentary was about, haveta say listening to a ten year old kid tring to explain why he hasnt seen his cousins in three years despite the fact that the live only a couple of miles away doesnt generate a lot of sympathy in me for Israel.

As for Jenin, I've seen a good bit of it, the place looks like its made of swiss cheese. Got some photos I'll try and dig up, pity I cant get some of the footage they shot on here, actually got shot at on a rooftop there. And do you honestly think the IDF deserves kudos for not bombing a place full of women and children? Please.

Btw the guys who served in the Leb mainly talked about the IDFs treatment of the local Shia Lebanese. Dont think I need to say much on that, the fact that Hezbollah was born out of it speaks for itself. The Israelis and SLA (that right?) did shell and shoot up the lads fairly regularly, safe in the knowledge they were under orders not to return fire. Pretty cowardly if you ask me.

 

Offline Styxx

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Originally posted by Gank
Styxx, whatever.


Way to refute my points. ;)
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Offline Gank

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There were points in there? Sounded to me more like you were ranting.

 

Offline Styxx

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Originally posted by Gank
Sounded more like a rant to me


Suit yourself.
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Offline Gank

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No no, if there were points I'll try to find them and refure them for you.

 

Offline Styxx

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Originally posted by Gank
No no, if there were points I'll try to find them and refure them for you.


I don't really want to perpetuate the argument here, but if you can't see my points it's simply because not seeing them suits you best. I was typing a long post explaining my points from the previous post, but re-reading it critically I realized they're quite clear by themselves. Feel free to ignore the post, though.
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Offline Gank

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Originally posted by Styxx
If Jordan is indeed "Palestine", why the hell isn't it claiming the Israeli territories?

Like I already pointed out, the palestinians who are fighting the Israelis are those who lived within the borders of Israel before its creation. Palestinians who now live in Jordan didnt lhave any land stolen from them. They arent fighting for the reinstatement of Palestine, which only existed as a british mandate from 1918-48, they want the land where they and their ancesters lived back,

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The fight for land is a weak excuse for their hatred of jews, extended automatically to the Israeli population in general.

riiight, you'll be calling them anti-semites next. Do yourself a favour and look it up in a dictionary first.

 
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The "palestines" have as much "ancestral rights" on the Israeli lands as native americans have on Washington D.C., and the fact is that nobody in power cares about it, as they bloody well shouldn't.

Theres a bit of a difference here, first of all your country mostly exterminated the Indians or stuck them on reservations, and after 200 years theres not many native indians around to lay claim to DC. Theres 3 millions Palestinians, many of whom actually lived in Palestine, and have Russians or Poles now living in their old homes. The analogy is pretty ****e to be honest, cant you think of anything better?
 
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As for the occupied territories - too bad for the Egyptians and Jordanians, learn not to poke your nose into a hornet's nest next time. Wars tend to change political borders, you know.
Aye but not people.

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Oh, the palestinians have the "right" to fight for whatever they want. If they want to bomb the heck out of Israeli civilians, they "can" - not legally, of course - and that's what they're doing. But complaining that Israel retaliates afterwards is hypocrisy, and nothing else. From their part and from anyone who defends them.
So bombing someone whos occuping your country is illegal while occuping that country is?

edit sorry bout the cursing, get fustrated debating something with someone who doesnt understand or care about the reasons behind it.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2004, 01:40:00 pm by 723 »

 

Offline Rictor

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Achmed "Saruman" Yassin Assasinated by Israeli Gunships
consistently the most educated and intelligent viewpoints expressed Gank.

/shakes hand

'cept mine :D:D
« Last Edit: March 22, 2004, 01:42:20 pm by 644 »

 

Offline Bobboau

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Styxx lives in Brazil
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Offline Gank

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Meh, talks like an american

 

Offline Rictor

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Offline Styxx

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Achmed "Saruman" Yassin Assasinated by Israeli Gunships
Quote
Originally posted by Gank
Like I already pointed out, the palestinians who are fighting the Israelis are those who lived within the borders of Israel before its creation. Palestinians who now live in Jordan didnt lhave any land stolen from them. They arent fighting for the reinstatement of Palestine, which only existed as a british mandate from 1918-48, they want the land where they and their ancesters lived back,

They had plenty of opportunity to get practicaly all of "their" lands back. And they are allowed to live in Israel, as a matter of fact, but they still want to create their own, "Palestinian", state (something that, interestingly, is not happening on Jordan). If all they wanted was to live in peace, they could merely stop bombing Israeli civilians.

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riiight, you'll be calling them anti-semites next. Do yourself a favour and look it up in a dictionary first.

It was stated by Arafat himself that their goal is to "drive the jews to the sea". See, it wasn't "have our lands back to live peacefully", nor even "drive the Israelis to the sea".

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Theres a bit of a difference here, first of all your country mostly exterminated the Indians or stuck them on reservations, and after 200 years theres not many native indians around to lay claim to DC. Theres 3 millions Palestinians, many of whom actually lived in Palestine, and have Russians or Poles now living in their old homes. The analogy is pretty ****e to be honest, cant you think of anything better?

It's not my country. I am Brazilian. And the only difference is the scale of time and population. How long does it take for something wrong to automatically become right? How few people must be left?

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Aye but not people.

I don't quite understand what you mean here. Is it that wars don't change people? Or that people don't change political borders?

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So bombing someone whos occuping your country is illegal while occuping that country is? Bull****. Styxx, **** off and learn some facts.

No, you missed my point here. Both the Israeli occupation and the bombings can be considered illegal (as the American Revolution was considered illegal by Great Britain, for example). The fact remains that you must take responsibility for the consequences of your actions, and Israeli military retaliation is a direct consequence of Palestinian terrorist attacks against civilians. They can bomb pizza places as much as Israel can bomb the homes of known terrorists in return, but defending the Palestinians, claiming they're "poor, innocent people who just want to live in peace" and ignoring the killing of innocents they perpetrate every day is simple hypocrisy. Israeli military units are visible for everyone everyday there: why don't they concentrate on military targets? Until they start to do so, they're nothing more and nothing less than terrorists. And in my opinion (and apparently in that of the Israeli government), terrorists should be killed.
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Offline Rictor

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Achmed "Saruman" Yassin Assasinated by Israeli Gunships
France, the UK, the EU and the Vatican all condemn the asassination, but not the US. Interesting...

 

Offline Bobboau

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they killed a terrorist, we kill terrorists, it would be hypocritical for us to condem the action
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Offline Shrike

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Achmed "Saruman" Yassin Assasinated by Israeli Gunships
I think Lenin had it right when he tried to get rid of religion... :p
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Offline vyper

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Achmed "Saruman" Yassin Assasinated by Israeli Gunships
Well that's you lot ****ed over there now innit? Palestinians will go ape, blow lots more up than they would have before, be far more random and of course a peace accord is now further off.

There's days I'm glad I live in an island nation. :D
« Last Edit: March 22, 2004, 02:17:59 pm by 798 »
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Achmed "Saruman" Yassin Assasinated by Israeli Gunships
For everyone thinking wrong about Israel consider this...

In 1940 in my hometown Ioannina there were 5000 Greek Jews and one of the older Jewish communities (rumour had it that it was founded by the Jews fleeing a sinking ship that transported slaves to Rome after the second temple was destroyed). Its synagogue was the founding synagogue of Chicago.
Now,  only a star of David is standing commemorating them. Germans took them all. (some escaped but they were a tiny percentage)

However bad I feel about the plight of the Palestinians, it is prudent sometimes to stop and think how and why Jews got where they are in the first place
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