Author Topic: Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.  (Read 5705 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ghostavo

  • 210
  • Let it be glue!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Quote
You could look at it based on past actions; Israel's never used WMD's against enemies even when attacked. Pre-American intervention Iraq had Saddam gassing up the Kurds in the north w/o blinking an eye.


So how would the international community feel if Germany started building up a nuclear arsenal?
Or even any other small/medium sized european country like Greece, Portugal or Ireland?
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline Nico

  • Venom
    Parlez-vous Model Magician?
  • 212
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
It'd be like going up the Nazi's and saying "Here's a bio-genetic weapon. Don't use it on France".


They wouldn't, they think we're just mislead.
"shivers"
The other way around, tho...
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Well, on one side Israel is possibly the only country in the world surrounded and depended on (Suez canal) hostile nations - which may or may not possess chemical weapons..... so i can understand their justification (as a deterrent against a united arab attack / 'holy war').

On the other hand, Israel actually using nukes would probably spark another global war......

 

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • 213
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Quote
Originally posted by Zuljin
Quite so.
I think that if not so much of Israel had been taken down in the event of a nuclear explosion, I think that Israel would have nuked Palestine long ago.


Oh, get real. Even if we wanted to wipe the Palestinians off the face of the earth, we wouldn't need a nuke to do so. But we don't, so you can sleep a little easier at night now. :rolleyes:

Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
On the other hand, Israel actually using nukes would probably spark another global war......


Probably so, and don't think Israel isn't aware of it, either.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline an0n

  • Banned again
  • 211
  • Emo Hunter
    • http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
You could look at it based on past actions; Israel's never used WMD's against enemies even when attacked. Pre-American intervention Iraq had Saddam gassing up the Kurds in the north w/o blinking an eye.

Yes, because America gave him weapons and said "Go nuts". So he thought "Hell, these guys don't seem too worried about me nerve-gasing people.....Y'know, those Kuwaitees have been pissing me off for a while now".
Quote
Also, Israel's the only democracy in the Middle-East, for what that's worth.
It's worth a few hundred Palestinians a year, apparently.
Quote
I guess it could be boiled down to a matter of responsibility, which is something that can only be proven over time.
You're saying Iraq firing chem-weapons at troops is bad, but Israel shooting missiles into civillian targets is good?

Israel is quite possibly the most irresponsible country in the region with the possible exception of the soon to be United States of Oil (READ: Tattered remains of Iran/Iraq/Saudi Arabia).
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • 213
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Blah blah - is that the best you can do? Claiming that Israel shoots missiles at civillian targets? Gimme a break. I thought we had beaten that topic to death already.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline an0n

  • Banned again
  • 211
  • Emo Hunter
    • http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
How about the fact that you only got the country out of pity and because all the other countries would've rather let the Germans win than put up with taking in Jews?
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
  • 29
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Alright anon, shut the hell up now. I was never talking about Israel's right to exist, but rather specific polcies and so forth.

Saying **** like that isn't helping anyone.

 

Offline an0n

  • Banned again
  • 211
  • Emo Hunter
    • http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Y'never know. If I say it often enough it might help the Palestinians from being butchered by the odd Apache.

Hell, there could even be a direct effect in that Sandwich will begin feeling so guilty, the next time he gets a chance to kill some little kid for throwing rocks he'll think "No. It would upset an0n" and not.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • 213
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
Y'never know. If I say it often enough it might help the Palestinians from being butchered by the odd Apache.

Hell, there could even be a direct effect in that Sandwich will begin feeling so guilty, the next time he gets a chance to kill some little kid for throwing rocks he'll think "No. It would upset an0n" and not.


You know what? Once you've come over here and seen for yourself what goes on, instead of relying on the media's regurgitated-for-the-masses, spoon-fed "reports", you can ***** all you want about whatever injustices may or may not be being done over here.

Until then, shut the hell up.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
yeah, Israel is such an irresponsable nation, that's why they've used the nukes they've had for so long on all the surounding nations, and why they've cordoned off the west bank/gaza and cluster bombed it for three weeks strait followed by a week of saturateing it with VX.
oh, wait, that's right, they havn't...
in spite of the fact that they could in a heart beat.
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Gank

  • 27
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
That the best defense of its actions you can come up with? At least they didnt massacre millions. :rolleyes:

Personally I'm all for nuclear proliferation, great deterrants all round. Throw a few to arafat and co and see how quick the occupied territorys become unoccupied.

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
  • 29
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
But you do not have the moral authority to judge who is fit to use them. As I said, everyone must be considered fit to posses nuclear weapons until such a time a time as they use them. Its the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

And again, whether a country is a democracy or a dictatorship is irrelevant in this case. In both cases, you have a very small group of people deciding whether or not to use the nukes. Sandwich, you say that Israel is a democracy, so that is why they are fit to posess nuclear weapons. But, do you think that there would bea referendum or anything of the sort if it came down to using the weapons? Hell no. Sharon or whoever would just say Yes or No, and that would be it.

And since you brought it up, no, I don't think that the current Israeli administration is responsible to anyone. Certainly not to the international community, that one should be obvious. Not to international law, again obvious.

Now, are they responsible to the Israeli people? To some extent they are, every four years. In between, they can do as they damn well please, and thats exactly what they do. But keep in mind, that the fear of the big bad boogyman that held the American people in its grip after 9/11 and allowed such laws as the PATRIOT Act t be passed is much more common in Israel. You are a better judge of this than I am of course, but it seems to me that Sharon is using the fear of terrorism to take the power out of the hands of the people.

In every national crisis, such as 9/11, people gladly give up their civil liberties and their democratic rights to influence government for protection and security. Normally, if the government is doing something that I don't like, I feel that I have a right to dissent and attempt to change those policies. But if you are constantly being told that there is a crazed suicide bomber just around the corner, and only Sharon can keep you safe, than you keep your mouth shut despite the fact that you disagree with what he's doing. I think this fear or terrorism plays a big part in Israeli politics. I mean, not just external, but also internal. So, when election time comes, Sharon goes out there and he tells the Israeli people "look, if you want be safe, vote for me". I mean, that utter nonsense, but thats what he says. And people buy it, cause he has a zero tolerance stance on terrorism, and that what people think is keeping them safe.

But in truth, if you were to elect a more moderate PM, one who would address the Palestinian's grievance instead of just trying to drown out their cries with gunfire, Israel would be a much safer place. Every time the IDF goes into the camps and kill 10 militants, it creates 20 more to take their place. You can't win this by attacking the people who attack you. You attack them because they attack you, and they attack you becausr you attack them. So, there's no way out.

And even when there is a short ceasefire that could potentially lead to peace, Sharon ****s it up by ordering an asassination which of course provokes the Palestinians to attack. Sharon is not interested in peace, because if peace ever came he would be gone in a second.

Hamas and Hezbollah don't want to kill all the Jews or whatever you say. They just want to live in peace and have the right of slef determination, just like every person on this planet. If they were interested in anhilliating you, they would not agree to truce after truce and truce. But they do.

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
umm
Hamas and Hezbollah do want to kill all the Jews. They don't just want to live in peace and have the right of slef determination, just like every person on this planet. They do not hold to truce after truce and truce, becase they are interested in anhilliating you. they don't.

see makeing statments without backing them up is easy and fun! :D
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
  • 29
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Hamas truce not enough says Israel June 2003

Hamas calls truce December 2001

Yassin to call of all terrorist activity if Israel withdraws from Gaza and West Bank October 1997

Hamas offers truce October 1999

13 Palestinian militas offer ceasefire December 2003

Israel rejects Plaestinian ceasefire proposal September 2003

Israel reject Palestinina truce call August 2003

Al Aqsa renounces truce after Israeli asassination July 2003

Israeli tank raid brakes ceasefire May 2001

and so on and so forth. this is just a few of the results I eno****ered when searching for "Hamas truce". I never even searched for Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and all the rest. I'll try to find some sort of comprehensive database of peace offers.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2004, 01:57:29 pm by 644 »

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Well, as pacifist as I am, I have to agree with Bob here, these particular organisations are strictly and violently anti everything-but-themselves, or at least this is their precise motives as named by their mouthpieces. Hell, some of them even hate each other, it's better than Monty Python!
I don't like the current situation in the Middle East any more than anyone else does, but the simple fact is that just about everyone is to blame, Europe, America, and of course, the Middle East itself.
The problem is that if we don't stop this 'you hit us, we'll hit you harder'  posturing, it's just going to lead to more and more death.

Rictor : All you'll get is a list of Israeli or American peace proposals, it's not simply a question of 'offering peace' no matter how much I wish it was.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2004, 01:09:20 pm by 394 »

 

Offline Zuljin

  • 25
  • Cake!
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
Well, as pacifist as I am, I have to agree with Bob here, these particular organisations are strictly and violently anti everything-but-themselves, or at least this is their precise motives as named by their mouthpieces. Hell, some of them even hate each other, it's better than Monty Python!
I don't like the current situation in the Middle East any more than anyone else does, but the simple fact is that just about everyone is to blame, Europe, America, and of course, the Middle East itself.
The problem is that if we don't stop this 'you hit us, we'll hit you harder'  posturing, it's just going to lead to more and more death.


Indeed, as long as that keeps going on there will never be peace.
But the way things are looking now, it looks pretty grim for any peace agreement unfortunatly :(

And saying that Hames etc. is anti everything is a little unjust remark I think.
As said above, they have offered many truces to try and make peace, but the truces have always been broken so far..(by both sides)

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
  • 29
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
umm
Hamas and Hezbollah do want to kill all the Jews. They don't just want to live in peace and have the right of slef determination, just like every person on this planet. They do not hold to truce after truce and truce, becase they are interested in anhilliating you. they don't.

see makeing statments without backing them up is easy and fun! :D


So is copy-pasting my original statement - complete with spelling errors and the fact that the last sentence does not make sense if you just reverse everything without re-writing., :D:D

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
yes, yes it is
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
  • 29
Mordechai Vanunu and the only WMD in the Middle East.
wrong button, sorry my fault
ignore this post