[Lonestar]

Isreal is a tool for the NWO, it will be the Isrealites that will claim to have the christ and will use the "christ" to claim their fallen lands.

This is all predestined.

BTW 8 US soldiers died in a Mobbing. Not shooting, or fighting, or crossfire or even friendly fire.

THEY WERE MOBBED TO DEATH!

US cant win this one.

[Bobboau]

fuck

[an0n]

See, the Sunni leadership got raped to death in the fighting with the US, so all they could do was snipe in 2-3 man teams at open US targets.

But the Shia have been working under Saddam for years. They'll have a working leadership, organization and operational security.

Plus, they've probably been planning this since last May.

America is going to get pwned so bad it'll make Vietnam look like a kick in the groin compared to this nuke in the face.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Bobboau
you know looking at the chain of events over the last few days I realy wonder if **** was TRYING to incite a violent upriseing

Do you think the US government actually wants a shia led government in Iraq, considering that the Shia communitys two biggest allies are Iran and Hez'bollah?

Anon, this has probably been planned since long before last may. Hez'bollahs in there for 6 months at least clicky

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by an0n
See, the Sunni leadership got raped to death in the fighting with the US, so all they could do was snipe in 2-3 man teams at open US targets.

But the Shia have been working under Saddam for years. They'll have a working leadership, organization and operational security.

Plus, they've probably been planning this since last May.

America is going to get pwned so bad it'll make Vietnam look like a kick in the groin compared to this nuke in the face.

But it's the Shias who are starting to revolt now..........yon black-shirted militiamen.  That's why this has spread to Basra.

[Bobboau]

you'd think they wouldn't, but small violence, they close a news paper, this invokes big violent protests, so they arrest one of the guys aids, this leads to huge outrage, and now there going to arrest the guy himself, add to this the faluja crap and it seems like there trying to fuck up. what's next Bush declairing the war in Iraq a crusade?

[StratComm]

The thing is, it's the Iraqi's that are issuing the arrests.  I don't know if it's something the occupation is doing systematically with the Iraqi authorities working with them, or some kind of internal power struggle.  I suspect the latter, but why couldn't it have happened after the troops handed over power?

[Bobboau]

becase then it wouldn't be America's fault,
and anyway, I don't think that's it,  it seems like we have simply cluster****ed, again
we controle the Iraqi authorities if there doing something we arn't just ok with it we told them to do it

[Rictor]

Well, seeing as how anyone in a decision-making capacity has been appointed by the US (sorry, sorry, "the Coalition"), yes you are responsible. No one so much as takes a piss without the CPA's say so, and I think that the Iraqi people recongize their "government" for what it is; a puppet regime.

Now, the big mistake was pissing of Muqtada al Sadr. It is estimated that anywhere from one third to one half of all Iraqis support him, so trying to shut him down might not be the wisest thing to do. He's got his militias up in arms all over Iraq.

If the Shia ever come to stand united against the US, its going to get very bloody very quickly. And this guy, he seems likely to be the man to make it happen.

[Fractux]

Another article people should check out.

[Flipside]

I see what you mean about the Veto Anon.

This technique has been proven to only increase resistance and local hatred. Everyone knew this was coming I think, from the moment those bodies were dragged through Fallujah there had to be a show of power from the Americans.

Whoever commanded the military forces to surround the village knew this would spark off a riot, caused by panic if nothing else, say what you like about the American Army, but they are shiny, and they have big guns.

Basically, being anti American is a matter of survival in that village more than anywhere in the Middle East, a lot of the people involved in the mutilation business etc were there because they would be persecuted if they weren't, or suspected of being a sympathiser. So I don't quite see how to resolve this now.

< sigh > Where's Asterix and Obelix when you need them?

[Janos]

I just wish I could be able to rant

"AHAHAHAHHHAA YOU ****ED UP IRAQ JUST TO ESTABLISH YET ANOTHER COLLAPSING FUNDIE-ISLAMIST ****HOLE JUST WAITING TO TOSS MONEY AT WHOEVER THEY LIKE/DISAGREES WITH USA USA USA"

But I won't.

[Rictor]

I hope there is an uprising. Kicking out the US is the only way the Iraqis are going to get real soverignty. That thing on June 30th is a charade. All the real power will be kept with the US. Not to mention the fact that the entire Governing Council is US appointed.

[Flipside]

The Iraqis won't push America out, and, as much as I feel for the Iraqi people, the Bloodbath that would follow the Americans leaving at this moment in time doesn't bear thinking about.
The only way Iraq will get sovereignty is if every other country in the world leant on the US, which isn't going to happen, and then for the US to comply to the weight of the rest of the planet, which isn't going to happen They've got the Bombs.

If America had the world in it's hands, I wouldn't feel so bad, but America doesn't, a few massive corporations have the world in their hands, and they are squeezing.

< Ding > Time for Prozac! LOL

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Rictor
I hope there is an uprising. Kicking out the US is the only way the Iraqis are going to get real soverignty. That thing on June 30th is a charade. All the real power will be kept with the US. Not to mention the fact that the entire Governing Council is US appointed.

I don't.... because they're probably the only thing preventing (or at least trying to) an all out civil war.  And if the Kurds get involved, then Turkey probably will.  

Unless a multinational UN force of sufficient size can be sent in - which is highly unlikely given how the war was started - I think the US (and by extension the UK) will need to stay for beyond July 30.

[Liberator]

What you've got here(Fallujah) is a bunch of guys who just want to make waves.  They are on their way out and want to take as many with them as possible.

[Flipside]

'Finished by Christmas'

[Gank]

Originally posted by Flipside
The Iraqis won't push America out, and, as much as I feel for the Iraqi people, the Bloodbath that would follow the Americans leaving at this moment in time doesn't bear thinking about.

Both are inevitable. It would be impossible for the US to control Iraq with ten times the number of troops they have there without the compliance of the majority of Iraqis. The number of bombs they have makes no difference, those are for destroying things, not controling them.

[Flipside]

It's phsychology, not Maths that will win though, it's not ALL Iraqis that are in the uprising, I have no real idea of numbers at the moment. But I personally feel that if America really cut loose with some of the stuff they've got over there, the outcome would be horrific.

The 'Bombs' aren't for Iraq, they are to stop everyone else interfering, in the politest possible way, of course. Control is often achieved by possesing the ability to destroy things, and (and this is important) demonstrating this once in a while so people don't think you have grown feeble. This has worked since before Man was Man, if you believe in evolution.

[Rictor]

Sure thing Lib. Downplay the extent of the resistance.

As I've said, it has been estimated by Middle-East scholars that anywhere from one third to one half of Iraqis support al Sadr. This is not "a few guys in Fallujah". This is many millions of people, who want the US out of their country.

______

aldo: Though I by no mean support al Sadr, I do support soverignty (jeez, I can never spell it right) for the Iraqi people. If a fundamentalist is who they want, then thats who they get. Of course, I believe that basic rights for women and such should be upheld, no matter who is in power. This would take more than US presence, it would take a UN effort on the ground.

After years of Saddam's secular Iraq, the people are hungry for some religion. The fact that Muqtada al-Sadr's father and uncle were killed by Saddam for their religious views only strengthens him. I think a moderate theocracy with someone like al Sistani is the best that can be hoped for.