[Nico]

I don't care if they can marry, I don't give a damn. I'm just against them being allowed to adopt children ( that's the big thing in France too, right now, gay rights ). I don't give a damn about them, their rights to having a child or anything. But I care about the right of children of having a sane, stable environment where to grow.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by an0n
While I am, on occassion, willing to admit that I have been misinformed, I have a certain dislike for having my opinions refered to as 'stupidity' by someone who couldn't find their own ass with two hands and a subscription to Finding Your Ass Weekly.

It's people like you who make the world a ****-hole. *****ing about how killing is wrong and tollerance is good with abso-****ing-loutely no understanding of realism.

Most of the time, killing people is a very effective method of achieving your goals. It's been used as such for thousands of years. So unless you're telling me that people like Caesar, Churchill and Sun Tzu are morons, then you should probably just shut the hell up.

When you're prepared to live under the rules you spew out with every post then I'll listen to you. As it is every time someone finds a flaw in your logic you simply state that they don't apply to you because your meglomania makes you believe that you are a special case.

You ***** to me about realism yet actually seem to believe your delusions about taking over the world.

An0n. Your opinions mean absolutely nothing to me at all. I only even bothered to respond to your post because you accidently strayed into something I found interesting.  The rest of the time I treat your trolling like what it is.

[an0n]

They're only delusions if they're unrealistic.

It's perfectly realistic to believe I could make millions and run for government. Maybe not in America, where you need the backing of the shadow government, but in the UK a few million pounds and knowing how to manipulate the populous is all you really need.

Gimme a few years then I'll have MI5 drag your ass out of bed at 3am, beat the goddamn **** out of you and drop you off infront of me so I can laugh and kick you before I kill your family and deport you to Somalia.

[karajorma]

More likely that you'll try this **** in public one day and they'll cart you off to join all the other people who think they're Napoleon.

[jdjtcagle]

Die, thread DIE!!!

[an0n]

Originally posted by karajorma
More likely that you'll try this **** in public one day and they'll cart you off to join all the other people who think they're Napoleon.

One word: Greenpeace.

Now try and tell me crazy people can't control the world.

And if you're thinking about 'informing' me Greenpeace are a legitimate organization, I really will have you deported.

They're run by uninformed, unwashed, morally, ethically and mentally bankrupt, anti-social, university drop-outs yet they've crippled entire industries with their terrorism.

And the morons...err..Mormons. They were started by a guy who gave no proof of divine guidance, no holy relics, no nutritional food and basically nothing except a bunch of whacked-out ideas yet they've managed to destroy whatever semblance of sense America had managed to amass.

Hell, even Christianity. A sub-standard carpenter does a few tricks that Penn and Teller wouldn't sully themselves by performing and all of a sudden he's the biggest martyr to have ever existed, the son of God and his insane ramblings are the foundation for entire civilizations and the cause of just about every major war in history.

The world is shaped by people smart enough or crazy enough to use the all-encompassing stupidity of a crowd against false enemies.

[karajorma]

I didn't say crazy people couldn't take over the world. I said you couldn't

As for Greenpeace I've hated them a lot longer than you have most likely

[an0n]

I've hated Greenpeace since I can remember, but for different reasons than you. I think they should either shut the **** up or go all-out and be proper terrorists.

See, this is what I mean about killing people. If Greenpeace went around torpedoing whaling ships, d'you think they'd be more and less effective?

[karajorma]

Originally posted by an0n
I've hated Greenpeace since I can remember, but for different reasons than you. I think they should either shut the **** up or go all-out and be proper terrorists.

That's half of my opinion. I just think they should shut the f**k up

Originally posted by an0n
See, this is what I mean about killing people. If Greenpeace went around torpedoing whaling ships, d'you think they'd be more and less effective?

They might manage to stop or slow down commercial whaling for a while but they'd have a harder time once the Japanese and Norwegians started shooting at them.

On top of that they'd lose a large portion of their general support and they'd lose any chance of getting anywhere on their other goals. What are they going to do about promoting organic farming? Capture farms at night and plant organic crops

[an0n]

No, burn non-organic farms to the ****ing ground.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by anon
blabla.

Originally posted by Rictor
It a pretty safe bet than anyone who advocates oppression has never been oppressed himself. This is a human constant, way back through history.

Thats why certain people can get all preachy about this or that, cause they've never been on the other end of the stick.

You sure a big man behind a computer. You sound like you could take on God tommorow and still have time left over to enlighten half the world's population and kill the other half. But, you know, its all bull****. Like if I told you that my secret ninja spies are on their way to assassinate Ronald McDonald because he wouldn't bow to my demands for a lifetime supply of Cheeseburgers.

Now, lets get a few things clear.

1) Every despotic organization in the history of the world has fallen. Every single one.

2) Especially in this day and age, the lifespan of despotic organizations is getting shorter and shorter.

3) Peace (and all it entails) is the only sustainable option open to mankind. Sustainable=good. Not only that, it is also the most beneficiary to the greatest amount of people. There is simply nothing to be gained through war, oppression and strife that can not be achieved through peace (and all it entails).

4) How many people do you think you could persuade to drink your little [l]MING[/l] ANON THE MERCILESS Koolaid. Maybe some pre-schoolers, if they're especially daft.

5) The greatest minds in human history, by and large, have all been, and I'm going to simply and misrepresent here quite a bit for lack of a better word, "men of peace". That is, dedicated to the ideals of peace (and all it entails.)

I'm probably missing something, but that would seem to be the basic jist of it.

As for Greenpeace, though I'm only familiar with a few of their actions (Brent Spar and some others), they seem to have thier hearts in the right place. No one (animals included) should have to suffer because some CEO wants to line his pockets. Sure, there arew certain resources which must be extracted from the Earth, and certain waste which must be sent back, but this is currently way, way more than it has to be, cause its more convenient.

Read up on Ray Anderson, CEO of Interface Carpets, the world's largest carpet manufacturer. He has some very interesting things to say.

I'm going to paraphrase him, cause I can't remember the exact wording. This is about as close as I can remember.

This period whic we are in now, is reminiscent of the early attempts by man to fly. Man builds a contraption, which he assumes will enable him to fly. He goes off a very high cliff, and he's flapping his wings and turning his gears, and he is sure that he is flying. But he is not flying, he is in freefall. The air rushing up around him and his assuredness that his machine is capable of flight, they make it seem as if he really is doing it; flying. But he is in freefall, becuase the machine can't fly. It was not designed to fly, so natuarally it can't do it. And though the ground is rushing up to meet the man, it is still a long way off. Some people, they can see the ground beneath us better than others, and they are trying to warn humanity. But everyone else still thinks we are flying.

This is reffering to the first Industrial Revolution and the unsustainable nature of our current economic/production system.

[an0n]

Originally posted by Rictor
You sure a big man behind a computer. You sound like you could take on God tommorow and still have time left over to enlighten half the world's population and kill the other half. But, you know, its all bull****. Like if I told you that my secret ninja spies are on their way to assassinate Ronald McDonald because he wouldn't bow to my demands for a lifetime supply of Cheeseburgers.

Says you, who'd probably cry and run away if you ever met me IRL.

1) Every despotic organization in the history of the world has fallen. Every single one.

So has every non-despotic organization.

2) Especially in this day and age, the lifespan of despotic organizations is getting shorter and shorter.

That's a reflection on the advancement of weaponry, not on the will of the people. It now takes a smaller number of malcontents to inflict a larger amount of damage.

3) Peace (and all it entails) is the only sustainable option open to mankind. Sustainable=good. Not only that, it is also the most beneficiary to the greatest amount of people. There is simply nothing to be gained through war, oppression and strife that can not be achieved through peace (and all it entails).

That's so stupid I'm not even going to bother.

4) How many people do you think you could persuade to drink your little [l]MING[/l] ANON THE MERCILESS Koolaid. Maybe some pre-schoolers, if they're especially daft.

I don't even see what you're trying to get at with this point, other than to make some vague comment about preschoolers.

5) The greatest minds in human history, by and large, have all been, and I'm going to simply and misrepresent here quite a bit for lack of a better word, "men of peace". That is, dedicated to the ideals of peace (and all it entails.)

Uh, no. The people who weren't men of peace died. And those who survived are demonized by morons like you who oppose their beliefs to the point where they're no longer considered great.

As for Greenpeace, though I'm only familiar with a few of their actions (Brent Spar and some others), they seem to have thier hearts in the right place. No one (animals included) should have to suffer because some CEO wants to line his pockets. Sure, there arew certain resources which must be extracted from the Earth, and certain waste which must be sent back, but this is currently way, way more than it has to be, cause its more convenient.

Greenpeace ****ed up a deal for GM crops that could've saved millions of lives in the third world by telling them the crops would make them sterile.

There's a few HUNDRED MILLION people dead just so a few dozen middle-class, suburban ****heads can feel like they've done something with their worthless lives.

[HotSnoJ]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I (for the most part) agree with an0n on those points.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by an0n
Says you, who'd probably cry and run away if you ever met me IRL.

*gets out ruler*

Just give me a sec, its kind of cold in here right now.

Originally posted by an0n

So has every non-despotic organization.

True, but but for entirely different reason. Of course, nothing last forever and one day the universe will implode, but at present non-oppressive organizations stand a far better chance at surviving for longer periods of time. Or actually, I should say maybe not right right now, but it is unavoidably (and quickly) moving in that direction.

Originally posted by an0n

That's a reflection on the advancement of weaponry, not on the will of the people. It now takes a smaller number of malcontents to inflict a larger amount of damage.

I'm not talking about armed resistance. If anything the disparity between the methods available to the weak and to the strong has increased. Not much guerillas can do against bombs and missles and  srmat bullets.

Originally posted by an0n

That's so stupid I'm not even going to bother.

Suit yourself. Thats really the core of my point, but you can do as you like.

Originally posted by an0n
I don't even see what you're trying to get at with this point, other than to make some vague comment about preschoolers.

The point I am trying to make, is that you stand about as much chance of getting a single other person to sign on to your point of view as I  have of sprouting a third arm and making a succesful career for myself in an acclaimed freakshow.

Originally posted by an0n
Uh, no. The people who weren't men of peace died. And those who survived are demonized by morons like you who oppose their beliefs to the point where they're no longer considered great.

I was reffering mostly to philospohers and their like. Just cause Hitler conquered half of Europe, does not make him "one of the greatest minds in human history". People who do great things and people who think great things are very different categories.

Originally posted by an0n
Greenpeace ****ed up a deal for GM crops that could've saved millions of lives in the third world by telling them the crops would make them sterile.

There's a few HUNDRED MILLION people dead just so a few dozen middle-class, suburban ****heads can feel like they've done something with their worthless lives.

Wow, who's demonizing now. As I've said before, I don't know enough about GM foods to speak inteligently (oh the irony, I can't spell for ****) on the subject, and niether I'm guessing can you. Probably just read a headline that said "Greenpeace sabotages GM foods deal, millions die". There are a ton of pros/cons in GM foods which must be considered, and this goes far beyond the nice, pre-packaged bullet points you see in most media sources.

A blow to your ego I'm sure, but I am not willing to take the word of an uninformed stanger from over the Net on something as complex as this. I would need to read some serious literature before I pass judgement. Which I don't object to, and will probably do it at some point.

Becuase, as great as they are, I very much doubt that Penn and Teller can be considered legitimate sources of information on GM foods or anything scientific in nature for that matter. They're badass magicians and performers (I saw a few eps of them travelling the world and learning the magic tricks of different cultures - it was awesome), but agricultural experts they ain't.

[Langy]

I forget.... what was this thread about? Gays getting the right to marry, or an0n's theories on mankind's nature?

[Rictor]

I should point out, that power is a means and not an end. So the question then, is to what end?

[an0n]

Originally posted by Rictor


*gets out ruler*

Just give me a sec, its kind of cold in here right now.

Eh?

True, but but for entirely different reason. Of course, nothing last forever and one day the universe will implode, but at present non-oppressive organizations stand a far better chance at surviving for longer periods of time.

All governments fall to a superior military force sooner or later. It just so happens that ones which advocate violence fall faster because...well, there's more violence involved in their basic principles. Thus, the weaker cultures are destroyed quicker, which is a plus to mankind.

I'm not talking about armed resistance. If anything the disparity between the methods available to the weak and to the strong has increased. Not much guerillas can do against bombs and missles and  srmat bullets.

Eeee-rah-K

Suit yourself. Thats really the core of my point, but you can do as you like.

You really are dumb, aren't you. I know fine well that's the core of your argument, that it's your entire perspective on the matter and that it's completely and utterly stupid.

You condense your stupidity into one simple burst, so I responded in kind.

The point I am trying to make, is that you stand about as much chance of getting a single other person to sign on to your point of view as I have of sprouting a third arm and making a succesful career for myself in an acclaimed freakshow.

I don't want anyone to 'sign on'. I want them to understand that there are other ways of thinking about things and to use that revelation when considering things in the future.

I was reffering mostly to philospohers and their like. Just cause Hitler conquered half of Europe, does not make him "one of the greatest minds in human history". People who do great things and people who think great things are very different categories.

I'm sorry, when did Nietzsche found a perfect society? I must've missed that.

Wow, who's demonizing now. As I've said before, I don't know enough about GM foods to speak inteligently (oh the irony, I can't spell for ****) on the subject, and niether I'm guessing can you. Probably just read a headline that said "Greenpeace sabotages GM foods deal, millions die". There are a ton of pros/cons in GM foods which must be considered, and this goes far beyond the nice, pre-packaged bullet points you see in most media sources.

No, it doesn't.

GM food is safe, profitable and beneficial. But you get morons who want to 'weight the issues' and 'conduct more studies' trying to stonewall the issue because they don't know **** about it and get spooked by Greenpeace running around saying T3h Ev1l Scyunti5sts are breeding monkeys with 5 asses.

A blow to your ego I'm sure, but I am not willing to take the word of an uninformed stanger from over the Net on something as complex as this. I would need to read some serious literature before I pass judgement. Which I don't object to, and will probably do it at some point.

No, you'll read a report by someone far more intelligent and well-informed than you, decide you don't like what they're saying and mark it off in your mind as the ramblings of a naughty, nasty man.

Becuase, as great as they are, I very much doubt that Penn and Teller can be considered legitimate sources of information on GM foods or anything scientific in nature for that matter. They're badass magicians and performers (I saw a few eps of them travelling the world and learning the magic tricks of different cultures - it was awesome), but agricultural experts they ain't.

Two words: Series Researchers.

Penn and Teller don't go crawling through reports on crop-yields, but the researchers on the show do. They scour through thousands of pages of official documents, newspaper articles and discarded Post-Its to make sure Penn and Teller aren't talking out their asses.

[an0n]

Originally posted by Rictor
I should point out, that power is a means and not an end. So the question then, is to what end?

Power is an end as much as 'improve the healthcare system' is.

[Rictor]

Not true. Improve the healthcare system is one higher than power, becuase it serves someone's interst, while power can not serve anyone's interests except by improving the health care system or buying a hooker or something of the sort. In the end, nothing is an end becuase there is always a "why".

Oh well. This could go on for a long time. I'll just say that, assuming that your world view and my world view are equally implementable (which is really giving you the benefit of the doubt), I simply prefer mine. I believe in peace, justice and all the crap, and so do a hell of a lot of other people. This is becuase the alternative would serve to help few and harm many, and most people in the world consider themselves to be among the weak.


Just to get the point across, one last time

Originally posted by Rictor
It a pretty safe bet than anyone who advocates oppression has never been oppressed himself. This is a human constant, way back through history.

Thats why certain people can get all preachy about this or that, cause they've never been on the other end of the stick.

An armchair politician, if thats not a double-positive already, is what you are. I am a firm believer that those who make policy should be exposed equally to its effects as anyone else. Trust me, a few years of hunger, war, imprisonment and dictatorship would turn you right around.

[an0n]

Pff. That's only applicable if you believe in all that equality bull**** to begin with.

If someone came up to you and said "Here's all the power in the world" you'd oppress people with it. It's only because you know you'll never have power that you preach tollerance.

Kinda like a little kid cowering in the corner screaming "Can't we all just be friends?!?!"