[Bobboau]

I said it was theoreticaly posable

[an0n]

An America cluster bomb has the ability to destroy an entire village in a single 'hit' and kill tens of thousands of people.

Hell, a grenade in a football stadium can kill thousands.

There's no way you're telling me they're weapons of mass destruction.

As a general rule, if it's a tactical, non-nuclear weapon: It's not a WMD.
If it's a strategic weapon: It's a WMD.

A mortar with a drop or two of decomposed sarin inside is not a WMD. Hell, they'd probably have had to lick the inside of it for it to have been fatal.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Gank
I meant the terms NBC or ABC, not the actual weapons themselves. Though I could think up a few uses for them now that I think about it.

I was sure you meant the news channels, in which case it would be quite horrific.

[KARMA]

from what we know, this shell could be instead a proof that Saddam had not the possibilities to build weapons of mass destructions: why he should had such an old weapon elseway?
Or, maybe, it was a shell stolen by Saddam's arsenal by the iraqui resistance years ago and kept hidden for later use against Saddam himself...and, the irony, used now against who got him..
Or, maybe those terrorists or whatever they are just found a secret Saddam's deposit of those weapons....
who knows...

[PeachE]

Originally posted by an0n
If you'd actually bothered to read the article:

It's the equivelant of a French farmer digging up a WW2 mine and using it to kill foxes.

And it's worth noting that while they say a 'single pinhead of sarin can kill a man', both people affected by it were treated and suffered no longer-term effects.

That's how little of it there was.

no, there was a significant ammount in the shell. but that type of weapon can't be used as an improv bomb. the chemicals don't mix correctly and thus only very trace ammounts are produced in the explosion.

but yeah,  i still support the war, but this isn't a WMD discovery.

[PeachE]

but there's always the unanswered question of whether, even if activated correctly, the explosion would have consumed the Sarin.

meh some asshat found a mortar from GW1 and didn't know how to use it. no biggie.

[Bobboau]

it's a bullet compaired to an 8,000 lb bomb, there the same class of weapons.
chemical weapons are in a class of weapons refered to as "weapons of mass destruction". it's stupid and pointless to argue, becase this shell is insignifagant, and it just sounds like you're trying to play some retoricle game when you go "well this isn't realy a weapon of mass destruction". it isn't the first WMD found in Iraq it won't be the last, but it's prety much been found as fact that the WMDs we were suposed to find, the signifigant type capable of liveing up to there names, aren't there. and Bush is a moron.

[StratComm]

Which is why I have to agree with Gank on this, the acronym NBC is much better suited to describe these weapons as a class.  WMD implies magnitude, but that's not how it's being used.  In fact WMD for chemical and biological weapons is somewhat of a misnomer, neither one actually destroys anything other than living tissue (and some localized burning, in the case of strong chemical agents, but that's irrelivant to this discussion).  The point is, a small amount could in theory kill a lot of people, and cannot be detected as easily as conventional explosives can.

I, for one, have gotten quite sick of "Teh terrorists are coming with ther weapons of mass destruction!!!111oneone" routine, but it's all the general public seems to be able to understand.  Education is an invaluable thing, more people should really try it.

[an0n]

Most Americans don't understand the terms 'nuclear', 'biological' and 'chemical'.

Weapons of mass DESTRUCTION is just another of those stupid buzz-words that's simple enough for the morons to understand but has enough bad connotations to keep them blindly opposed to anything and everything even remotely related to them.

[Flipside]

Well, when it killed 12 people and made thousands sick on the Japanese subway, it was considered a WMD then.

I'll wait for results before I form an opinion, even Rumsfield has admitted that the person who rigged the bomb may not even have known that it contained Sarin. But whether it was there before the War, the fact that a nerve agent HAS been found in Iraq will, as most of us know, be advertised to the full. So if this IS a smuggled in weapon, whoever did it has just tipped the scales slightly more towards America in the propoganda war. I bet they're feeling a bit silly about that!

[an0n]

So, anyone heard about Hussein lately?

Coulda swore there was some kind of convention on the treatment of captured foreign leaders.......

[Flipside]

Hyup, the Dog Collars the right size, and theres new batteries in the digital camera

[Rictor]

They (the US) broadcast his dental examination for all thr world to see. No better way to utterly de-mystify and humiliate him. Now, he's just an old man with shaggy hair getting his teeth checked out.

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Originally posted by Sandwich
Furthermore, what the [SIZE=8]HELL[/SIZE] has gotten into you guys? Since when did HLP become such an unfriendly place to be? You guys sicken me.

Nice work. You have a go at us for insulting him, then you insult us.
Fan-****ing-tastic.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Bobboau
I said it was theoreticaly posable

Theoretically maybe, but this was a binary type agent in an artillery shell. In order for it to work correctly it has to be fired from an artillery piece, the chances of terrorists setting up a 155mm howitzer and firing one of these things into the right place at the right time under the right conditions is on a par with the pope declaring Bin Laden the second coming. Bit of realism never hurts, stops the more niave among us from pissing their knickers in fright.

[Flipside]

Well, I would suspect that the charge is shaped to throw the Sarin backwards, since pushing 3/4 oz of Nerve gas into the ground is merely going to give a few spiders one hell of a time.

The Sarin may well have been out of date etc, but it won't matter in the end, Nerve Gas is Nerve Gas, regardless of whether it is active, delivered correctly or more or less inert. It is THAT fact that will be drawn to peoples attention if this is true.

Does seem a little odd that it was found so soon after the whole Abu Ghraib incident...'We may have found some of our soldiers were torturing prisoners, but the terrorists used nerve gas!'.

But then, stranger things HAVE happened.

[Kazan]

Summary:

1) It's an old shell probably a GW1 leftover
2) It was unmarkked
3) It was overlooked in the mass disposal of NBCWs from GW1 due to 2
4) the idiot insurgents didn't know it was a CW due to 2
5) A single, very old CW round doesn't prove that saddam has had a chemical weapons program anytime in the last 13 years

[size=12]6) You cannot use this to justify ****'s bull****, due to 5[/size]

[J3Vr6]

You have a lot of rage in you, don't you Kazan?

[Flipside]

I certainly agree that this is no evidence that Nerve gas has been made in the last 13 years in Iraq. A Factory, or an Ammunition dump is the only thing that would convince me that production was even beginning to reach a level where I could believe that Saddam had any intent of using it on his Neighbouring countries or further afield.

[ionia23]

This is amazing.  TinCan puts up one dinky little post and the whole lot of 'you' swarm around like a pack of hungry coyotes.  A bunch of hippies armed with bazookas.  Lovely.

He's right, you're wrong, get over it.