[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Striker
funny...I just watched the time bubble episode last night. But I do like the idea of them holding something in. It's a complete reverse on the "OMG TEH SHIVANz!" Idea that they're all powerful. Compared to us, they are. But compared to their enemies, they're no match.

I've never been a fan of that idea myself.... I think having a tower of cards where the next race is more powerful than the other, seems like a cop out.

I'm more of a fan of the 'perpetual war' scenario, myself (plus the notion that we've only seen the tip of the Shivan iceberg, if you will)... then you can skew that in certain ways - like towards why this war started, whats the ancients / TV involvement within it that makes the Shivans attack us, and whether the relatively insgnificant GTVA can make one single action which is enough to upset the balance and let one side win.....

[Unknown Target]

Originally posted by aldo_14
What's more evil - to wipe out your enemies, or to gnaw at them slowly, letting them live in fear, until you deliver the coup-de-grace?

Which is easier--letting your enemies live and constantly having to fight them when they keep getting better and better weapons, or just wipe them all out when you have the chance and superior firepower?

[InfernoGod]

Here's a theory that doesn't fit in with the story at all, but is possible if an extreme plot twist happened:
the Shivans were trying to prevent the GTA and PVN from discovering another species that was far deadlier in FS1, so the Lucifer was mobilized to steer the GTA and PVN away from the species while some other Shivans back in Gamma Draconis pushed back the enemy. Then in FS2, they supernova-ed Capella to prevent this species from advancing any further.
OK, i know it sucks, i hate it too, but you never know... although i highly doubt it...

[aldo_14]

Doesn't fit with nuking Vasuda Prime.

[Lynx]

Maybe they just didn't like the Vasudans.

I always had the impression that the shivans were somewhat remote controlled, serving an unknown entity/race.

[magatsu1]

Well, the Lucifier made a beeline for Vasuda Prime, then headed for Sol. So I doubt it was a Vasuda thing.

I like the idea of Shivans being drawn to conflict, like pissheads to a curry house. You know, just a natural instinct.

[AqueousShadow]

It's a damned shamed Su-tehp's story never got out. Singh's thing about holding something on the other side in is what it's about.

Shivans aren't all powerful. They're running from something much bigger and they don't want us to get eradicated in the process.

[Antares]

You guys suck.  Two whole pages of posts and nobody mentions my masterpiece.

[castor]

Maybe they are a very, very timid species
And that.. mess is what happens when a highly intelligent race acts out of fear.

[Blaise Russel]

I always took the dude in FS1 epilogue at his word.

Shivans = Great Preservers. They run around hitting people who are having barnies with one another, so that the people who were having barnies stop fighting and start hitting Shivans. Yay, no more death, except for the harbingers of peace.

I believe it is only the destroyers who are killed.

And p'rsonally, I lean towards 'elemental force of the universe' 'cause the other theories do take the magic out of them, really.

[Black Wolf]

Meh - everyone else is doing it, might as well add this little bit to the pot.

The Shivans have been fighting wars for a long time, at least 8000 years, and I think it's reasonable to assume that the Ancients fought the same Lucifer group that we did in FS1. Is it possible, perhaps, that the shivans weren't used to being defeated, and that their defeat here prompted them to upgrade technologically? The 32 years could have been the time it took for them to develop things like beam weapons and Ravannas and stuff.

[HeX]

Perosnally I just thought that them blowing up Capella was a way to keep us out of their space.

Blowing up a sun tends to make the system extremely hostile with the extremely fatal levels of radiation and all. Would be quite a simple way to keep us out.

Not to mention the possiblity of a nova sun creating a black hole.
Sure collapsing a jump node would work, but how long before we develop Knossos tech and just re-open it? A black hole would be a far more permanent closure of a system.

We entered through a Knossos, found ourselves in space they were occupying, and immediately they attacked us. They moved their Sathanas fleet into Capella, destroyed the sun, and pretty much screwed over any chances of the GTVA using that set of jump nodes.

If you look at the map, it's pretty much the gateway to Gamma Draconis and beyond. Why they didn't blow Gamma up instead, well maybe they know of jump nodes there that we don't.

That or perhaps Gamma Draconis isn't a heavy enough star to produce a black hole. If the star isn't massive enough when it goes supernova then it'll produce a neutron star in place of a black hole. Perhaps Capella was big enough to produce a BH, which would be one hell of a deterrant.

The Sathanas jumping out could have been jumping for the node out of the system. If it's far enough out, they'd have had enough time after the sun went up for at least a few of them to escape. The ones left behind perhaps didn't jump in time. Intrasystem jumps seem fairly quick (you call for reinforcements and they jump in after less then a minute) so if they jumped out close to the node they'd have had a chance to leave.

[InfernoGod]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Doesn't fit with nuking Vasuda Prime.

You... mean... it's incorrect to nuke planets?
*turns to face his weapons officer*
Quickly! Power down the beam cannons before we obliterate Antares IV!
[desperate voice] Too late! [/desperate voice]
*Antares IV blows up*
*sighs* Well, there goes another planet.
*sensors officer turns to Adm. InfernoGod* Sir! Sensors indicate that 3 million cases of Bosch Beer have survived the blast! Deploying freighters to pick them up now!
*everybody on the bridge of the GTDn Independence cheers*
*sensors officer, again* Sir! A small ship with annoying blue spinny thingys is emerging from subspace!
[Admiral Fishy Dude voice in Star Wars] It's a trap! [/Admiral Fishy Dude voice in Star Wars]
*Independence warps out as the small AWACS docks with the nearest case of beer and a Terran Turret#weak destroys a cruiser investigating the explosion*

[karajorma]

Originally posted by HeX
Not to mention the possiblity of a nova sun creating a black hole.
Sure collapsing a jump node would work, but how long before we develop Knossos tech and just re-open it? A black hole would be a far more permanent closure of a system.

While I'm not saying you're wrong a nebula would stay hot for thousands of years. No need for a black hole to seal Capella.

Originally posted by HeX
That or perhaps Gamma Draconis isn't a heavy enough star to produce a black hole. If the star isn't massive enough when it goes supernova then it'll produce a neutron star in place of a black hole. Perhaps Capella was big enough to produce a BH, which would be one hell of a deterrant.

Or Gamma Draconis isn't big enough or in the right place in its lifespan for the shivans to blow it up that way.

Originally posted by HeX
The Sathanas jumping out could have been jumping for the node out of the system. If it's far enough out, they'd have had enough time after the sun went up for at least a few of them to escape. The ones left behind perhaps didn't jump in time. Intrasystem jumps seem fairly quick (you call for reinforcements and they jump in after less then a minute) so if they jumped out close to the node they'd have had a chance to leave.

Agree 100%. I always thought they were running for Gamma Draconis personally.

[aldo_14]

Wonder what the gravitational disturbance of a nova would do to an open subspace tunnel.......

[HeX]

I wonder if the relationship between subspace and gravity is two way. That could explain the use of subspace to nova the sun. Perhaps they manipulated the gravitational forces acting on the sun, triggering the supernova.

[Swamp_Thing]

What i wonder is why the first Sathanas didn´t use that super weapon on the Colossus... If it took 80 of them to blow up a star, one single ship had more than enough power to destroy 10 Colossus. So why didn´t it use that uberweapon to win the battle??

[HeX]

Well considering we saw the power drain on the Sathanas from using the device (the red lights dimming and such), perhaps it was more economical to just blast the living hell out of it with beam cannons.

[Carl]

yeah, and remember, it took them weeks to build up enough power to supernova Capella.

[Carl]

Originally posted by HeX
Not to mention the possiblity of a nova sun creating a black hole.
Sure collapsing a jump node would work, but how long before we develop Knossos tech and just re-open it? A black hole would be a far more permanent closure of a system.

That or perhaps Gamma Draconis isn't a heavy enough star to produce a black hole. If the star isn't massive enough when it goes supernova then it'll produce a neutron star in place of a black hole. Perhaps Capella was big enough to produce a BH, which would be one hell of a deterrant.

IIRC Capella is very similar in mass to our sun. a star would need 8 solar masses to become a black hole.