[Akalabeth Angel]

Before my computer crashed I had some document that listed the fleet deployment for the Terran and Vasudan fleets/battlegroups. Does anyone have this around???

[karajorma]

Originaally posted on FREDzone by Su-tehp

(FYI to all mission designers, Terran ship groups are referred to as "fleets’, while Vasudan ship groups are referred to as "battle groups." The list below illustrates this. There is one inconsistency with this in the tech database Artemis bomber entry, which refers to the Terran Artemis bomber being deployed to the Terran 2nd and 3rd battle groups. All the other references I found were all consistent in referring to Terran ship groups as "fleets", so I’ve decided to disregard the Artemis inconsistency.)

Everyone, this is a list of the fleet and battle group organization in both the GTVA Terran and Vasudan fleets and the Neo-Terran Front fleets as well. If you wish to refer to specific fleets and battle groups, please use this list. I’ve done a great deal of work compiling this list to make it as accurate as possible, so that everyone would have the same basis to name fleets. The reason I would like everyone to use this list is to reduce inconsistencies with everyone’s missions. Problems would arise (and have already arisen) if different mission designers would base the same fleet in different star systems. Hence, I created this list. I hope that it serves all of you well.

GTVA Terran Fleet Organization Notes:

For fleets and battle groups that have the word "CONFIRMED" next to them, this means I have found a specific reference to that particular fleet and its base system in the FS1 and FS2 games from either a command briefing, the technical database, or a debriefing comment. The rest of the fleets and battle groups I had to extrapolate and do some guess work. I deduced that there were 26 GTVA battle groups from looking at the technical database entry for the GTM Hornet missile, which said that 2.6 million+ Hornet missiles had been stockpiled after the Great War and they were evenly distributed to all of the GTVA battle groups/fleets with each battle group and fleet getting at least 100,000 Hornets each. So 2.6 million divided by 100,000 = 26 fleets/battle groups. I knew that there were at least 12 Terran fleets because of the reference to the 12th Fleet at Ross 128 that I found in a debriefing and the tech database mentions the 13th Battle Group at Deneb in the description for the GVD Hatshepsut. So I reasoned that there were 13 Terran fleets and 13 Vasudan battle groups.

Determining which planets were Vasudan and which were Terran was a little tougher, but from all the specific references I found concerning which planets belonged to whom, I couldn’t escape from the conclusion that only Alpha Centauri, Altair, Vasuda Prime, Aldebaran, and Deneb were Vasudan planets. ALL the other planets in the vicinity of Vasuda Prime had specific references that they were Terran planets, NOT Vasudan. In order to square this with my conclusion that there were 13 Terran fleets and 13 Vasudan battle groups, I came to the conclusion that, in order to help cement the mutual trust and cooperation that arose from fighting the Shivans, the Vasudans would base many of their battle groups in Terran systems and protect them for the Terrans, who were already stretched thin guarding the rest of their systems. BETAC and the formulation of the GTVA no doubt helped cement this gesture of trust and friendship.


1st Fleet: Based at Terra (Cut off from GTA/GTVA when SD Lucifer exploded)
2nd Fleet: Based at Delta Serpentis (the Terran capital since contact with Earth was lost)
3rd Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Capella
4th Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Vega
5th Fleet: Based at Beta Aquilae (this system is the capital of the entire GTVA)
6th Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Epsilon Pegasi
7th Fleet: Based at Polaris
8th Fleet: Based at Regulus
9th Fleet: Based at Sirius
10th Fleet: Based at Laramis
11th Fleet: Based at Luyten 726-BA
12th Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Wolf 359 (a @#%$ assignment for Terrans)
13th Fleet: Based at Ross 128 (the REALLY Terran @#%$ assignment)

The 4th Fleet was based at Vega during the Great War and was still based at Vega during FS2 (I found specific in-game references to both), so I’m guessing the Terrans never re-organized the fleet deployments. The Terrans in the GTVA military are no doubt hoping that the 1st Fleet still exists and will rejoin the GTVA once contact is restored. This is why Earth still has the 1st Fleet based there; it’s also a morale issue. Acknowledging the loss of the 1st Fleet (the cream of the crop of the Terran military) would be a huge blow to morale, so it’s fleet designation was never changed. (This is ALL guesswork here, but I think it’s a good guess.)

NTF Defection notes: (If you want to verify this information, most of it is all in the technical database under the topics "Reconstruction" and "Neo-Terran Front". I’ve extrapolated the rest.)

The Reconstruction period after the Great War was a difficult time for the Terran and Vasudan peoples. The economy of both nations was in a shambles and the GTA even collapsed into several regional blocs. With the rise of Khonsu II, however, the Vasudans fared much better in the Reconstruction than the Terrans did, even including the fact that the Vasudans’ homeworld of Vasuda Prime had been obliterated by the SD Lucifer. The Vasudans’ economic recovery was nothing short of miraculous, while many of the Terran planets (Polaris, Regulus and Sirius in particular) had a much more difficult time recovering from the aftermath of the Great War. This engendered bitterness and resentment in many Terrans, particularly those of the "Lost Generation", those Terrans who grew up during the Reconstruction. Because of this resentment and bitterness, Bosch was able to quietly recruit many enthusiastic followers in the 6th Fleet (which he commanded at the time) to secretly join him and the NTF shortly before the start of the NTF Rebellion.

Once Bosch convinced parts of the 6th Fleet to defect to the NTF, he used these fleet assets to head from Epsilon Pegasi to Polaris and overthrow the government there. The 7th Fleet, based at Polaris, also decided to defect to the NTF once Bosch had made his overtures to them. The GTVA 6th Fleet was still in existence (I found specific references to the 6th Fleet in the Epsilon Pegasi missions in the single campaign; also, Epsilon Pegasi is a contested system, not a fully NTF-controlled system) so presumably NOT ALL of the 6th Fleet defected to the NTF, just a large enough amount to take Polaris with the 7th Fleet’s assistance.

The 8th and 9th Fleets defected to the NTF a few weeks after Bosch staged his revolt in Polaris as Bosch managed to make inroads into Regulus and Sirius. While a few units of these fleets MAY have stayed loyal to the GTVA, they presumably were overwhelmed by the units that defected to the NTF. This helps explains how Bosch was able to secure these three systems so quickly. Once Bosch had these three systems under his control, he had a significant resource base from which to conduct his secret agenda of contacting the Shivans while his subordinates conducted their campaign of conquest and genocide against the Vasudans.

With Polaris, Regulus and Sirius firmly in the hands of the NTF, it is safe to say that the 7th, 8th and 9th Fleets (those units that hadn't defected to the NTF) were effectively obliterated (or perhaps they fled to other Terran systems and were re-integrated into those fleets), while the units that did defect to the NTF became the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Fleets of the Neo-Terran Front. As a result, the 7th, 8th and 9th Fleets of the GTVA effectively ceased to exist.

Neo-Terran Front Fleet Organization Notes:

Neo-Terran 1st Fleet: Based at Polaris
Neo-Terran 2nd Fleet: Based at Regulus
Neo-Terran 3rd Fleet: Based at Sirius

I’ve set up the NTF fleets this way because of the "domino effect" that was referred to in the Neo-Terran Front" entry in the tech database. Polaris was the first to fall to the NTF. The next system on the jump node map was Regulus, which lay between Polaris and Sirius. For there to be a domino effect, the things have to fall in order. Thus, I reasoned that since Regulus fell before Sirius, Regulus should be the base of the 2nd Neo-Terran Fleet and Sirius should be the base of the 3rd Neo-Terran Fleet.

Once the NTF was able to push into Alpha Centauri, Deneb and Epsilon Pegasi, it’s reasonable to assume that Bosch had several months to use the manufacturing facilities on Polaris, Regulus and Sirius to churn out more ships for the NTF fleets. As for the people to crew these ships, Bosch had no shortage of potential recruits or conscripts. Polaris, Regulus and Sirius were heavily populated Terran planets with millions, maybe even billions, of disaffected and fanatical members of the "Lost Generation."

With this resource base, I think it is reasonable to say that Bosch created new NTF fleets to manage the campaigns in Alpha Centauri, Deneb and Epsilon Pegasi. And so….

Neo-Terran 4th Fleet: Based at Deneb
Neo-Terran 5th Fleet: Based at Alpha Centauri
Neo-Terran 6th Fleet: Based at Epsilon Pegasi

This leads to the question of whether NTF fleet Read admiral Koth and the NTD Repulse were stationed in the 6th Fleet or not. I THINK it could be the Neo-Terran 6th Fleet, but don't quote me on that just yet.

Some of you will notice that I put the NTF 6th Fleet in Epsilon Pegasi. You might also have noticed that the GTVA also has its 6th Fleet in Epsilon Pegasi. Coincidence? Or did I do it deliberately?

Hmmm…. What do you guys think? :lol 8) :smokin

GTVA Vasudan Battle Group Organization Notes:

List of Vasudan planets:

1st Battle Group: Aldebaran (it’s the Vasudan capital since Vasuda Prime was obliterated)
2nd Battle Group: Vasuda (the REALLY @#%$ assignment for Vasudans, for obvious reasons)
3rd Battle Group: Altair

11th Battle Group: Alpha Centauri

13th Battle Group (CONFIRMED): Based at Deneb


List of Terran planets but guarded by Vasudan Battle Groups:

4th Battle Group: Ikeya
5th Battle Group: Ribos
6th Battle Group: Adhara
7th Battle Group: Antares
8th Battle Group: Beta Cygni
9th Battle Group: Betelgeuse
10th Battle Group: Procyon A
12th Battle Group: Bernard’s Star (a Vasudan @#%$ assignment because it’s so far from Vasudan territory)


Keep in mind, this is a fleet organization that exists from the formulation of BETAC in 2358 and into the events of FS2. (I’m not even going to try to figure out how the fleets were organized in FS1; there are just too many inconsistencies to try.) If campaign designers wish to refer to this list for their campaigns that take place after FS2, please feel free to do so. You don’t have to, of course, but I wouldn’t mind in the least if you did.

[aldo_14]

I'm not sure I'd agree with that.  I'm positive the 5th Terran fleet is Capella, in particular.  i also reckon that the Vasudan battlegroup is not fleet equivalent, but a localised specific purpose part of a larger fleet.  And also that TV fleet ranges overlap, because the Psamptik appears in the very first mission, presumably within the same system as the Aquitane.  Plus, if there is effectively a Terran rebel faction attacking Vasudan civvies, it's unlikely the Vasudans would put the Terrans in sole control of security in disputed systems.

[NGTM-1R]

The terms battlegroup and fleet aren't really interchangable, though it does LOOK like they were used that way.

A Vasudan battlegroup seems to be built around a single destroyer, but Terran fleets can have at least two destroyers, so so I suspect that they really are different-sized units. (6th Fleet had the Aquitane and whatever destroyer of theirs that got blown up in Epsilon Pegausi.) Perhaps the Vasudans have fewer destroyers, or maybe they have another form of unit that's where the rest of their destroyers went. (Maybe dedicated System Defence Forces? After the Lucifer I'd expect their doctrine to be keen on home defense.)
Purely from name alone, I'd expect the ships of a battlegroup to go almost everywhere together, but from in-game experiences with the Psamptik it looks like they don't. More stupidity from Command...

[Blaise Russel]

Originally posted by aldo_14


I'm not sure I'd agree with that.  I'm positive the 5th Terran fleet is Capella, in particular.

Originally seen in the very first command briefing
We'll be joining the GTD Aquitaine, flagship of the 3rd Fleet, Capella.

i also reckon that the Vasudan battlegroup is not fleet equivalent, but a localised specific purpose part of a larger fleet.

Why do we never hear of the Vasudan 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. fleets? Why is the GVD Psamtik flagship of the 13th Battlegroup and not the 13th Fleet? Why only one specific mention of a Terran battlegroup, which could just be an error in writing?

[NGTM-1R]

Whoops...I could have sworn they mentioned the Aquitane was the flagship of the 6th Fleet somewhere as well...

[aldo_14]

Whoops indeed.  5th, 3rd....easy to get them mixed up.

Originally posted by Blaise Russel

Why do we never hear of the Vasudan 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. fleets? Why is the GVD Psamtik flagship of the 13th Battlegroup and not the 13th Fleet? Why only one specific mention of a Terran battlegroup, which could just be an error in writing?

Because we're in the Terran and not Vasudan fleet?

SM3-05 also mentions a Terran battlegroup, BTW
"A Vasudan never leaves the field of battle without authorization from a superior officer. Your cowardice jeopardized the lives of our brothers and sisters. You are hereby stripped of your wings and all privileges bestowed upon you as an officer of the Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance. You will be taken into custody and handed over to the Terran 3rd Battle Group authority, where you will face a court martial. You are a disgrace to your species, Terran."
It also mentions the 12th fleet in Wolf359 (presumably Terran) in another message in the same mission, which implies against a confusion of terminology.

(very nitpicky)

It seems to me, that if the Vasudans have 13 'fleets', and the Terrans at least 12, then thats a much larger force than indicated by the ending of FS2, IMO.  So my opinion is that either the term 'battlegroup' and 'fleet' are interchangeable (i.e. so the Vasudans would have fleets #7-14 or similar), or battlegroups themselves are smaller in size and role.  I prefer the 2nd, purely because it presents a more interesting tactical situation.

[SadisticSid]

Perhaps warship composition is different for Vasudans too - maybe one will have a destroyer, four corvettes and a dozen cruisers, whereby another might have three destroyers and fewer supporting craft.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Anyway, thanks. That was exactly what I was looking for.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by SadisticSid
Perhaps warship composition is different for Vasudans too - maybe one will have a destroyer, four corvettes and a dozen cruisers, whereby another might have three destroyers and fewer supporting craft.

Or maybe Vasudan battlegroups are purely military vessels, but terran fleets include the supply vessels, like gas miners, transports, freighters, etc.

[magatsu1]

then there's the "Colossus and it's battle group" just to confuse things.

[Kosh]

Originally posted by aldo_14


Or maybe Vasudan battlegroups are purely military vessels, but terran fleets include the supply vessels, like gas miners, transports, freighters, etc.

I doubt that. Any military force needs to keep a supply line going. Even Shivans do that.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by aldo_14
SM3-05 also mentions a Terran battlegroup, BTW
"A Vasudan never leaves the field of battle without authorization from a superior officer. Your cowardice jeopardized the lives of our brothers and sisters. You are hereby stripped of your wings and all privileges bestowed upon you as an officer of the Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance. You will be taken into custody and handed over to the Terran 3rd Battle Group authority, where you will face a court martial. You are a disgrace to your species, Terran."
It also mentions the 12th fleet in Wolf359 (presumably Terran) in another message in the same mission, which implies against a confusion of terminology.

That would imply that the terms battle group and fleet are interchangable wouldn't it? Otherwise it seems a bit of a coincidence that a ship in the 3rd fleet is also in the 3rd battle group.

Notice also that it is a Vasudan who refers to it as a battle group. If the terms are interchangable and the vasudans simply prefer to use Battle Group over Fleet then that explains the slip up.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Notice also that it is a Vasudan who refers to it as a battle group. If the terms are interchangable and the vasudans simply prefer to use Battle Group over Fleet then that explains the slip up

    Sounds like a good enough explanation to me

[Taristin]

Could be ancient talk. Like how we still call certain things names from ancient times, even though the description is innacurate, Vasudans do the same. Perhaps.

[Night Hammer]

why would Ross 128 be a really **** assignment while Luyten is only a **** assignment, ross is only a jump away from delta serpentis, while luyten is farther away

[Blaise Russel]

Not sure whether this is entirely canon, but Ross 128 acquired a bad reputation after the Great War and hasn't been properly resettled since.

[aldo_14]

I don't even think there is a 13th Terran fleet - I think it then goes into the 13th Vasudan fleet / battlegroup, and that any DS fleet would be the 1st (with Ross 128 being the 2nd)

Of course, the 12th is defined as a support fleet, is it not?  Which would imply some fleets are specialised as army units are, and thus by the same reasoning their deployment might be fluid.

[Swamp_Thing]

There´s a reference to a terran battlegroup in the briefing of the mission "Slaying Ravana" aswell.
Seems to me a battle group is a taskforce assembled to do a specific task, while fleet represents the larger unit from wich the battlegroups are made of.