Author Topic: Normal maps?  (Read 6136 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Drew

  • 29
    • http://www.galactic-quest.com
One thing that Halo impresses me with was the use of one texture set. All those fancy graphics were done with one texture supplying all the needed data for spec, env, bump, and glow.
[(WWF - steroids + ties - spandex) / Atomic Piledrivers] - viewing audience = C-SPAN

My god.. He emptied the gasoline tank from the van onto your cat, lit him on fire, threw him in the house and dove for cover.  :wtf: Family indeed.  ~ KT

Happiness is belt fed.

 

Offline Deepblue

  • Corporate Shill
  • 210
Halo or Halo 2? Halo 2 uses normal maps heavily.

 

Offline Drew

  • 29
    • http://www.galactic-quest.com
halo 2 probably uses the same concept. Nobody has modded it yet.
a bump map is basically the same as a normal map.
[(WWF - steroids + ties - spandex) / Atomic Piledrivers] - viewing audience = C-SPAN

My god.. He emptied the gasoline tank from the van onto your cat, lit him on fire, threw him in the house and dove for cover.  :wtf: Family indeed.  ~ KT

Happiness is belt fed.

 

Offline Fry_Day

  • 28
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau


yeah, but it still needs vertex shaders IIRC

yes, but unlike PS, VS are emulated very fast on modern CPUs. Code using Vertex shading is about the same speed as code using fixed-pipeline calculations doing the same operations on a CPU.

That, I tested.

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
but it will still reqire a VS infrastructure, wich is the tricky part becase we have a dynamic vertex format.

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to do this and the model reformat at the same time, we can add to the model format the vertex format (on a per buffer basis) it's going to use and add a vertex and pixel shader option.
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Fry_Day

  • 28
I can cover the OpenGL side of matters there pretty easily, since the actual OpenGL calls are nonsense. Upgrading the infrastructure is API-independant anyway.

 

Offline Taristin

  • Snipes
  • 213
  • BlueScalie
    • Skelkwank Shipyards
Freelance Modeler | Amateur Artist

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
One small confusion regarding multi-layer textures.....

Supposing you had a texture that was 2048 x 2048 and you didn't want it to have a shine map. Now, in the current system, you can just create a little 16 x 16 black square and make that the shine map.

How would this sort of thing work in the new system, would it not use shine if you didn't include a shine-map in the texture, or would it use the colour as shine like it does now, which would mean that to not shine, I'd have to include a 2048 x 2048 layer of pure black in the texture file?

Does that make sense?

 

Offline Taristin

  • Snipes
  • 213
  • BlueScalie
    • Skelkwank Shipyards
Oh, you mean, since the different image layers can be different sized, now, how could it be done in the future?

/me gets what you mean, but doesn't think he can type it any more effectively...
Freelance Modeler | Amateur Artist

 

Offline Fry_Day

  • 28
texture coordinates are relative, therefore, the texture size shouldn't matter.

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
So, assuming the technique being worked on is similar in setup to a .PSD file, i.e, one layer for each texture effect, glow, shine, bump etc, then these layers would be capable of being different sizes from each other in the same file?

 
 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212

 

Offline Sticks

  • 29
Quote
Originally posted by Fry_Day
$#@!!$#@!$#@!$#@!$#@!$#@!$#@!$#@!$#@

on any modern card,

Bump maps == Normal maps


Not always true. Strictly speaking, bumpmaps encode only grayscale hight data. Normal maps however store X,Y, and Z normalized vectors in an RGB color format. Bumpmaps are not instrinsically made for smoothing surfaces and "faking" geometry as it were.
"Napalm is good as a quickfire solution, literally..." -- cngn

"Shh... [Kazan's] schizophrenia allows him to multitask." -- Goober5000

Why am I still coding at 12:35am?

SCP: Templum sanctus ingeniosus

 

Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
^yeah, normal maps are somwhat independant of surface normals, whereas bump maps are entirely dependant. Thus normal mapping is better for full UV mapped objects whereas bump mapping is more suited to tiled textures.
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline Fry_Day

  • 28
Quote
Originally posted by Sticks


Not always true. Strictly speaking, bumpmaps encode only grayscale hight data. Normal maps however store X,Y, and Z normalized vectors in an RGB color format. Bumpmaps are not instrinsically made for smoothing surfaces and "faking" geometry as it were.


What I meant is that internally you need to convert the bump map to a normal map anyway ('cause that's what Dot3 wants), so what does it matter what you call it?

 

Offline Sticks

  • 29
True. I guess in that case it's more a semantic argument than anything else. :)
"Napalm is good as a quickfire solution, literally..." -- cngn

"Shh... [Kazan's] schizophrenia allows him to multitask." -- Goober5000

Why am I still coding at 12:35am?

SCP: Templum sanctus ingeniosus

 

Offline Drew

  • 29
    • http://www.galactic-quest.com
so are we gonna get em?
[(WWF - steroids + ties - spandex) / Atomic Piledrivers] - viewing audience = C-SPAN

My god.. He emptied the gasoline tank from the van onto your cat, lit him on fire, threw him in the house and dove for cover.  :wtf: Family indeed.  ~ KT

Happiness is belt fed.

 
Such an implementation would be useless, unless someone will take the time to create the new textures. Using a photoshop manipulated texture original will not work well. Someone will have to literaly hand trace the parts have hieght differentiation.

In reguard to normal mapping, doesn't that require a high poly version of the ships for it to be convincing? So far there are only a handfull of those. That modeller would also have to create bumpmaps from scratch to make a goodlooking highpoly model that normal mapping would draw from.

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
: Looks at 1998 version :


: Looks at SCP and how much we've done so far..... :

Bring 'em on ;)