[Black Wolf]

The situation in Fallujah and other Iraqi cities, however, is pretty much what you can expect from any wars for the next few decades though - small groups of armed hostiles taking on larger military groups in an urban environment. The days of large scale infantry and mechanized warfare are going to be gone, for a few decades at least. Predicting beyond that is difficult.

That said, I still don' think we need mechs.

[Unknown Target]

IMHO, there is nothing a mech can/could ever do, with current technology, that a well trained group of soldiers with light armor support can't do today.

I would, however, support the development of armored power suits (such as in Heavy Gear)

[Flaser]

Take into account that the abilities of what we can achieve with current technology would be the bare minimum a mech will be capable of.

After all the Wright brothers flight's hadn't been as awsome - still a walking weapons platform may proove to hold its own values.

The only way to find out is to build or try to build one - and then draw the conclusions. I know this is a nerdy idea, but if not for the nerds we would be still sharpening our spears since who the **** would deal with a bow that can't even pierce a mamuts hide.

[aldo_14]

(nitpick alert) That would depend on how you define 'nerd', because it's not all-nclusive of human ingenuity; a lot of technology and advancements comes from people with direct experience - in this example it would be soldiers, or the very first hunter-gatherers.

IMO, no military organisation would seriously consider a 'mech' as a viable military weapon with respect to the alternatives.  IMO (again), I don;t think a feasible mech would have any military benefits not reproducable in a more cost-efficient and milatrily viable way using current 'platforms' such as tanks or VTOL.

What you have to remember, of course, is that a lot of things which are build will turn out to be a vast waste of money & time.  We just don;t hear of it in the most part, simply because they are inconsequential.

[deep_eyes]

"After Death Twenty thousand fifty. Battle weapons now consist of Mechanized warriors known as, Megadeuses."

[deep_eyes]

Originally posted by aldo_14
(nitpick alert) That would depend on how you define 'nerd', because it's not all-nclusive of human ingenuity; a lot of technology and advancements comes from people with direct experience - in this example it would be soldiers, or the very first hunter-gatherers.

IMO, no military organisation would seriously consider a 'mech' as a viable military weapon with respect to the alternatives.  IMO (again), I don;t think a feasible mech would have any military benefits not reproducable in a more cost-efficient and milatrily viable way using current 'platforms' such as tanks or VTOL.

What you have to remember, of course, is that a lot of things which are build will turn out to be a vast waste of money & time.  We just don;t hear of it in the most part, simply because they are inconsequential.

yea well maybe not in a tactical way,  not anytime soon atleast, but in a practical way, you have the concepts where these large mech like machines can be used to lift heavy materials, like loaders and such.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by deep_eyes


yea well maybe not in a tactical way,  not anytime soon atleast, but in a practical way, you have the concepts where these large mech like machines can be used to lift heavy materials, like loaders and such.

Compared to a JCB or tracked vehicle, though? I think mechs are too much of a compromise idea.... the whole bipedal thing seems unecessary for heavy lifting, all you need is one or two large arm devices.  Or simply a design intended to overcome the structural stresses of heavy lifting, which a mech probably wouldn't be (how to control balance and counter back stress as humans have to?)

i personally just can't envisagate a point where a large bipedal vehicle would be 'better' than something specifically designed for that - or conceive a situation where the only solution is a bipedal vehicle.

[Liberator]

Originally posted by deep_eyes
"After Death Twenty thousand fifty. Battle weapons now consist of Mechanized warriors known as, Megadeuses."

"Big O!  Big ooooOOOOOoooooO! Big O! Go Big O!"

[Flaser]

Originally posted by aldo_14


Compared to a JCB or tracked vehicle, though? I think mechs are too much of a compromise idea.... the whole bipedal thing seems unecessary for heavy lifting, all you need is one or two large arm devices.  Or simply a design intended to overcome the structural stresses of heavy lifting, which a mech probably wouldn't be (how to control balance and counter back stress as humans have to?)

i personally just can't envisagate a point where a large bipedal vehicle would be 'better' than something specifically designed for that - or conceive a situation where the only solution is a bipedal vehicle.

I already have one: send an autonomous probe to Mars.
A bipedal probe could cross the impossible terrain - a tracked one will inevitably get stuck.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Flaser


I already have one: send an autonomous probe to Mars.
A bipedal probe could cross the impossible terrain - a tracked one will inevitably get stuck.

In that case, you'd be using a multipedal 'centipede' like probe, or a tracked one with multiple flexible parts (i.e. so it can bend along its 'spine').

Remember - at the time when a bipedal 'walker' is a realistic technology for consideration for this, you'll also have a great deal of other technological advancements affecting the alternative.

I'm also not 100% sure how well the various mechanical parts and computing equipment of a bipedal probe would work in the martian climate, especially with respect to sandstorms.  Or, indeed, if the weight requirements would be exceeded by the technology or simply the power sources required.

[TrashMan]

Hmmm.....

I do think the best control is direct control - (like in Vision of Escaflowne). You move your arm left, the mach moves it. Not to mention that a humanoid mech wihth arms and fists would have a easy time exchanging weapons AND could use things around him as a weapon (rip out that lamp post and use it as a club).

The effctivnes of Mecha would be dependent on their agility and speed. If it can come close to human movement, then it would own a tank since it could (in theory) jump, duck, roll and shoot while doing it. It could avoid hits more easily than a tank.

However, there are many IF's...

[MicroPsycho]

what about a Shivan-oid mech? It may sound like a stupid idea, but It would have the satbility of multiple legs and with only one rear leg, the forward 2 legs would have a greater area in which to move without hitting the rear leg. It would have a low centre-of gravity and small frontal arc. And the two 'arms' could mount an assortment of weapons.

[Flaser]

Originally posted by TrashMan
Hmmm.....

I do think the best control is direct control - (like in Vision of Escaflowne). You move your arm left, the mach moves it. Not to mention that a humanoid mech wihth arms and fists would have a easy time exchanging weapons AND could use things around him as a weapon (rip out that lamp post and use it as a club).

The effctivnes of Mecha would be dependent on their agility and speed. If it can come close to human movement, then it would own a tank since it could (in theory) jump, duck, roll and shoot while doing it. It could avoid hits more easily than a tank.

However, there are many IF's...

The problem with the mimicing method of control is that the mecha will probably have very different inertia than what you are used to and different weight distribution. The question is if it is actually possible to pilot something with a mimic interface.

[NGTM-1R]

The problem with direct control is then you have to figure out how to fire weapons that are integrated into the body. Using only handheld weapons limits it to only two weapons at any one time, at most, and I imagine a backup integrated weapon, LMG or something similar, would be practically demanded by the people making up the specs it has to match.

But I'd expect the concept to start much smaller then you'd think. More like powered armor then mecha as you know and love them.

The mimic interface isn't as problematic as it sounds. Prothestic arms and legs are already manufactured that tap into the body's nervous system and take their commands from it.

[TrashMan]

I think mimic interface is too far off. While there are prothestic limbs out there, they follow a very simple movement - tehre can be no talk of complexity here..

As far as direct control goes - the mecha might have a different weight distribution or inertia, but the pilot is the one who is charged of balancing it. Thus it would be in theory no different than fighting in a middle-aged armor. takes a while to get used to fighting in it, but after a while, it's like it isn't there.

Secondly, weapons integrated into the body could be fired by a special voice command or movement (like for instance, they way spiderman puts his hands when he fires his web). And come to think of it, who would need integrated weapons anyway? We're talking about a giant mecha. His normal machinegun would be at least like the A-10 Vulcan 30mm cannon, and than one can rip tanks in peaces.

[NGTM-1R]

A fully functional hand isn't complex momement?

[aldo_14]

'Mimic' interfaces would probably need to be developed using a direct connection to the CNS, I think; use the brains natural power to perform the balancing act.  Far fetched as this may be, it's worth noting that any realistic mech capable of fighting is probably technologically decades away.

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
A fully functional hand isn't complex momement?

that's just the point- it's not fuly functonal. Open hand, close hand. You call that complex? Fast and precise control over each finger is what I call complex.

[Roanoke]

I wonder how a Mech would handle the recoil from large weapons like cannons or missile launchers ?

[Annihilation]

Originally posted by MicroPsycho
what about a Shivan-oid mech? It may sound like a stupid idea, but It would have the satbility of multiple legs and with only one rear leg, the forward 2 legs would have a greater area in which to move without hitting the rear leg. It would have a low centre-of gravity and small frontal arc. And the two 'arms' could mount an assortment of weapons.

That's actually a good idea. A mech doesn't have to follow a humanoid design. The human model isn't the more appropriate for agility and speed.