[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
Rictor doesn't live in another country, he lives in Canada.

All of those names come up equally and desicively English either way, and kind of end at that for me.

Canada is another country, y'know?

EDIT; oh, and;

Harold Shipman;
GP who killed elderly patients and forged their wills.  onvicted of 15 murders, a later enquiry found him to have killed at least 215 other patients and maybe even more.  Comitted suicide Jan 13 2003

Fred / Rose West;
 responsible for the rape, torture & murder of 12 (+) young women.  Also abused (molested) their own children. Fred West comitted suicide before he went to trial (Jan 95), Rose West is serving a life sentence (whole life).

(the latter 2 are probably closer in scale to the whole Patterson thing; single crimes with media coverage)

Roy Whiting;
Convicted of the murder of 7-year old Sarah Payne.  Her dissapearance & subsequent discovery (of her body) sparked a massive media / public outcry.  Life sentence.

Ian Huntley;
Convicted of the murders of 2 10 year old girls (Holly Wells & Jessica Chapman) in Soham; as above, this sparked a media frenzy at the time.  His girlfriend Maxine Carr - the victims primary school teacher - was convicted of perverting the course of justice by giving Huntly a false alibi.  Particularly noticeable is that both Huntly and Carr appeared on public TV appeals before the bodies of both girls were found.  Life sentence.

I wouldn't really expect the latter 2 to be familiar outside the UK, but Shipman in particular is one of the worlds most prolific serial killers, so I'd be somewhat surprised if no-one had at least an inkling of who he was.

[phreak]

Originally posted by aldo_14

Harold Shipman;
GP who killed elderly patients and forged their wills.  onvicted of 15 murders, a later enquiry found him to have killed at least 215 other patients and maybe even more.  Comitted suicide Jan 13 2003

[redmenace]

Originally posted by Black Wolf


Probably the same reason we don't - because lots of guns in circulation means lots of gun crime. Check the figures for counrties where you can buy military grade assault rifles off the shelf, and places where .22s have complex liscencing arrangements..

Not that I was to get off the topic of that bastard, but if you look at places where firearms are required to be owned by citizens, crime such as breakins and such are nonexistent, IIRC

Rictor: Scott Peterson killed his pregnant wife, dumped her body in the bay. Then he tried to blame it on a cult. He is also pretty emotionaless and even giggled during the proceedings. He had also been involved in numerous affairs.

I mean if he was innocent he would show some sort of distess about being found guilty.

[pyro-manic]

I'm sorry - you think that forcing people to have guns is a good idea? Good grief....

[Janos]

Originally posted by redmenace

Not that I was to get off the topic of that bastard, but if you look at places where firearms are required to be owned by citizens, crime such as breakins and such are nonexistent, IIRC
 

Where?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by redmenace

Not that I was to get off the topic of that bastard, but if you look at places where firearms are required to be owned by citizens, crime such as breakins and such are nonexistent, IIRC

what about crimes such as murder?  Or suicides?

And what about places where guns are not compulsary but are legal and commonplace?  Does the US have the lowest crime rate in the world now?

[SadisticSid]

The US has a proportionally lower crime rate than the UK - burglars are a lot less likely to risk their lives getting shot while stealing people, or risk murdering people in their homes in the midst of a burglary, just for a few household appliances. On the downside, violent crime can be a lot higher, e.g. more murders.

All gun control does is keep guns as an exclusive resource for criminals who know how to use the black market for them, putting them at a distinct advantage over their unarmed victims

[aldo_14]

And legalisation of guns makes it easier for criminals (or wannabe criminals) to obtain guns and use them in lieu of less dangerous weapons such as chibs or knives... I don't see how widening access to a device designed to kill and maim could help reduce the number of victims of violent crime.

[Getter Robo G]

that's why I wish I could move to Japan... (though as a Gaijin I would be picked on.)  It would be worth it.

[Mad Bomber]

About bloody time they came to this decision. Now I can finally, finally stop hearing about this bastard on TV.

[Bobboau]

well I'm glad to hear that the rest of the world was spaired this crap.

the best part of the thing was that his alaby was that he was 'fishing' (for a 12 ft fish in a 14 ft boat) in the bay that his wife and kid wased up in.

[redmenace]

Originally posted by pyro-manic
I'm sorry - you think that forcing people to have guns is a good idea? Good grief....

I didn't say it was a good idea. I am just pointing something out. I think people should be allow to own weapons. I certainly don't think that a 50caliber sniper rifle should be purchased off the shelf. I think depending on the weapon, there should be an increasingly deeper background check that the purchased should pay for. That does bring up the question of why should a person have to pay to utilize one of the constitutional rights? I don't know that answer to that.

Originally posted by Janos


Where?

Source: http://www.fff.org/freedom/0794d.asp
A shining example of the former is Switzerland. Like America, Switzerland won its independence in a war fought by armed citizenry. Since independence in the 14th century, the Swiss have been required to keep and bear arms, and since 1515, have had a policy of armed neutrality. Its form of government is similar to the one set up by our founders — a weak central government exercising few, defined powers having to do mostly with external affairs and limited authority over internal matters at the canton (state) and local levels.

The Swiss boast that they have the weakest central government in the West. They feel a strong central government weakens citizen initiative and individual responsibility. I wonder where they got that idea!

A Swiss publication states, "The Swiss do not have an army, they are the army." The eighteenth-century economist Adam Smith considered Switzerland the only place where the whole body of the people were successfully drilled in militia skills. As far back as 1532, Machiavelli commented in his book The Prince , "The Swiss are well armed and enjoy great freedom."

Gun ownership is a matter of community duty, for the Swiss consider national defense too important to be left to professional soldiers or those who join the army to learn civilian job skills.

[pyro-manic]

Ah, I thought you were referring to Switzerland. The thing is, the Swiss are decent people. They have low crime rates because they respect each other's lives, privacy and property. In America (and now increasingly Britain), that respect isn't there. It's a cultural problem, not a question of everyone having weapons.

[Janos]

http://euc.sagepub.com/cgi/content/refs/1/2/257 gives something else - granted, crime is low, but not unusually low.

[redmenace]

I am sure this is biased but here:

Source:http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38a75857671c.htm
"The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes. The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982. And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998. With all the attention that has been heaped upon the lawful possession of firearms lately, you would think that a city that requires gun ownership would be the center of a media feeding frenzy. It isn't. The fact is I can't remember a major media outlet even mentioning Kennesaw. Can you? The reason is obvious. Kennesaw proves that the presence of firearms actually improves safety and security. This is not the message that the media want us to hear. They want us to believe that guns are evil and are the cause of violence. The facts tell a different story. What is even more interesting about Kennesaw is that the city's crime rate decreased with the simple knowledge that the entire community was armed. The bad guys didn't force the residents to prove it. Just knowing that residents were armed prompted them to move on to easier targets. Most criminals don't have a death wish. There have been two occasions in my own family when the presence of a handgun averted potential disaster. In both instances the gun was never aimed at a person and no shot was fired."

That is the last I have time for. I have 1 last final to take.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by redmenace

Not that I was to get off the topic of that bastard, but if you look at places where firearms are required to be owned by citizens, crime such as breakins and such are nonexistent, IIRC

Where as crimes such as shootings and murders are higher.

Funny that.

[aldo_14]

RE: Switzerland.  If the Swiss get given guns as part of their national service, won't they also get given training and guidance on correct use?  And also wouldn't that help stop the less mentally stable from getting a gun via that method?  Furthermore, don't the Swiss get given rifles which are considerably harder to (for example) carry about and rob a bank with?

[wolfdog]

A Gun in the Home: Key Facts

* From 1990-1998, two-thirds of spouse and ex-spouse murder victims were killed with guns.[6]
* Guns are the weapon of choice for troubled individuals who commit suicide. In 1999, firearms were used in 16,599 suicide deaths in America. Among young people under 20, one committed suicide with a gun every eight hours.[7]
* A gun in the home also increases the likelihood of an unintentional shooting, particularly among children. Unintentional shootings commonly occur when children find an adult's loaded handgun in a drawer or closet, and while playing with it shoot themselves, a sibling or a friend. The unintentional firearm-related death rate for children 0-14 years old is NINE times higher in the U.S. than in the 25 other countries combined.[8]


*prepares for getting flamed*

[aldo_14]

Best put in the source for [6], [7] and [8] before someone asks.  Er, someone else.

[Roanoke]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
Indeed.

However, you never know when the King of England could try to waltz into your house. That's why my dad keeps the MPK5 in a shoebox in our closet.

Well if he does, he'll be a zombie and I doubt if a sub-machine gun would really help. No matter how many police forces use it.