[Flipside]

I think it's more along the line of the 'loose film' syndrome. Mankind is having to come to terms with, as he learns more and more, the fact that his morals are his own choice and not guided by some external force.

It's that fear and paranoia that gave rise to religion, and, certainly as far as the Church is concerned, having their methods for controlling millions of people being pulled out from under them by scientific theory is causing a rush of religious fervour to try and re-strengthen that control.

[Liberator]

Perhaps, flip, perhaps.  

But does science offer a solution to the inherent violence in Man?  Other that mass druggings and other less obvious forms of external mind control I mean.

Religion is effective because it's internal to the adherant.  There is usually nothing external to them forcing them to obey.(except in certain countries where the violent have absconded with control of the religion, which will remain nameless)

[.::Tin Can::.]

Originally posted by Clave
All religion is fundementally flawed, it's self-edvident.

Show me God or STFU

Show me evidence of a big-bang explosion forming everything in the universe, or STFU.

[Liberator]

Tin Can, STOP IT!  If you and Clave want to have a flame war, do it in PM please.  You to Clave.  We are trying to have a calm discussion about religion here.  I will ask the management to ban the next person to flame from the Hard Light Section for a week.

[vyper]

I'm sure they'll give a **** Lib.

[.::Tin Can::.]

[Dark_4ce]

I've always found the bible really interesting for all its stories. Especially the old testament. One of my favorites as a kid used to be the story of Samson. Pritty much a He-man of his day. Though I agree with Anon that the Moses story ranks up there with LOTR!

[Ghostavo]

Lib, I've never seen such an interesting argument about the causes of violence in the modern world. You say that religion has been the blunt of violence, and yet in the past centuries, most violence was caused by religion itself (crusades, jihad, inquisition, etc...).

Religion does not repress violence in any way. It does not also encorage it in general, dispite what I said previously. When any religion tries to explain violence, of course it is not going to say it does nothing to stop it... at least directly... For example, morals that you are so fond of linking to religion (and from there to god), have nothing to do with it. Religion might try to supress or uphold a moral code, but that moral code is beyond religion. For example, stealing is an offense in most of those codes and yet it is not specific to any religious/non religious group.

So concluding, you cannot link the raise of violence in the world to religion or lack of it. Violence stops when all individuals reach a certain level of maturity.

Also, I'd like to know what is your opinion on what to do with children that disrespect their parents... the bible seems to have a very... "original" solution...

[an0n]

Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Show me evidence of a big-bang explosion forming everything in the universe, or STFU.

Well, the universe proves we're right.

So we've got a whole cosmos comprised of hundreds of millions of galaxies and an almost infinite expanse of space and time backing us up.

What've you got? A book.

[diamondgeezer]

To be fair, it's a very thick book...

Anyway:

Originally posted by Liberator
Every Atheist's favorite quote is "God is dead" from Frederick Nietzche.  

I much prefer Voltaire's "If there were no God, it would be necessary to invent him"...

__________________
Diamond Geezer joins with Helios nine times out of ten

[Liberator]

an0n, we can say the exact same thing.

What proof do we have that God created the universe?

An almost limitless expanse "filled" with hundreds of millions of galaxies and hundreds of trillions of stars.

What have you got to prove a titanic explosion created everything?
A research paper.

[an0n]

I prefer: Infinite diversity in Infinite Chaos.

It's a perversion of Vulcan ideology, but it suits my big-bang theories.

[an0n]

Originally posted by Liberator
an0n, we can..................paper.

If anything the scale of the universe disproves what the Bible says.

[.::Tin Can::.]

Elaborate on that theory, an0n.

[Taristin]

Don't start with that 'theory' line again, TC. First, you must understand what a theory actually is. And since it was posted 8 times in the last thread like this, and you still can't grasp it, I refuse to repost it.

His view is no less a theory than yours.

[Ghostavo]

First, the big bang is not an explosion, it is the expansion of the universe from when it was a single point. This theory "began" when Hobble discovered the predominent red shift of far away galaxies. Saying God exists because we exist is not evidence nor is saying god exists because the universe exists. God is supposedly out of the universe, and therefore you cannot conclude that he exists by saying the universe exists.

[diamondgeezer]

Tell me - what happens when aliens land on the lawn of the White House, hear about our assorted monotheistic religions and **** their pants laughing at the primitive natives?

__________________
Diamond Geezer greatly enjoyed the third season of Lexx

[Ghostavo]

God smites them?

[an0n]

It's not a theory, it's a fact.

No-where in Genesis 1 does it mention God making stars.

Most people do the stupid thing and take 'God created the heavens...' to mean he created the stars, overlooking the fact that Heaven itself doesn't exist yet - and in the original texts Heaven means Heaven - not 'stuff above us'. It's a name, not a descriptive word. Taking 'heaven' to mean space is just a perversion of the idea based upon poetic license.

Put simply, the entire Bible ignores the concept of space - to the point that it's almost as if the person writing it didn't know a thing about the universe other than what he had personally seen. Funny that the creator of the universe wouldn't know about space.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by an0n
No-where in Genesis 1 does it mention God making stars.

Genesis 1:14-19:

[q]14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights-the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fourth day.[/q]

I'll assume you merely missed that passage...  

Originally posted by an0n

Most people do the stupid thing and take 'God created the heavens...' to mean he created the stars, overlooking the fact that Heaven itself doesn't exist yet - and in the original texts Heaven means Heaven - not 'stuff above us'. It's a name, not a descriptive word. Taking 'heaven' to mean space is just a perversion of the idea based upon poetic license.

Err... in the original texts, Mr. Hebrew Scholar, the word for "heavens" is "shamayim", which is literally "sky" or "skies", although it is also used to refer to "heaven".