Author Topic: weird how this hasn't been mentioned  (Read 2248 times)

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Offline Genryu

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
FFS, most sunni didn't even take part in this. I don't count the number of city who didn't have the infrastructure necessary to take part in the election. Oddly enough, most of these infrastucture were ready in pro-us city. I don't want to open a new debate on the reliability of the us in reconstructing a country so that the people can lead themselves, but I know enough to know that this isn't the way to go.
Man is making better fool proof machines everyday. Nature is making bigger fools everyday. So far, Nature is winning.
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"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
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Offline Ace

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Everyone keep telling yourself that. If you try hard enough, you might believe you are right.


So can you with all honesty say that the whitehouse would have accepted the election results if it disagreed with their wishes?
Ace
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Offline Rictor

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
We still don't know the election results, though you can make some educated guesses. The point is that the election is fradulent and illegitimate no matter who wins. Just putting that out now, before the results come in, so certain people don't start jumping up and down and  claiming that the only reason anyone would see the elections as fraudulent is because their side didn't win. There are real and numerous issues which prevent this elections from being legit.

Unless something miraculous happens, anyone who wins will be more or less pro-US and pro occupation, despite the fact that it is the exact opposite of the popular sentiment. For the Iraqis, its a no win situation. Enormous investement has gone into Iraq, in terms of military bases, corporate contracts, media and everything else. If you think that the US is leaving in the next decade, you're a fool.

 

Offline Mongoose

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
It's funny how much of the rest of the world, including most of the Iraqis themselves, see the events of today as a great accomplishment and a big step forward for Iraq.  Yet you lot are still *****ing.  Really says something about how bitter some of you are, doesn't it?

 

Offline vyper

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
No it shows how realistic we are. Grow up.
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Rictor

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
And which part of the world is that? Do I see celebrations in the streets of Damascus, or Cairo or Beirut? How about London, New York and Toronto? Interesting.

As the Iraqis...take a look at the freaking blogosphere, the best indication that's avaiable. The Sunnis in efect boycotted the election, the Shia probably didn't turn out more than 45%, and the Kurds don't even want to be part of Iraq. Elections condicted in a police state, with several large areas denied their votes, a shifty electoral system and vigorous US interference in support of their stool pigeons. Yeah, real democratic elections. FFS, Iran had better elections just last year, and they're a de-facto theocracy.

 

Offline Bobboau

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
if it gets us out of there faster it's a good thing though, yes?
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Offline Genryu

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
Good for the US, yes. Good for Iraq and the middle-east in general ? no.
Man is making better fool proof machines everyday. Nature is making bigger fools everyday. So far, Nature is winning.
- Albert Einstein
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
- Gandhi

 

Offline Bobboau

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
let me rephrase that, if it gets us totaly out of that country without rivers of blood were the streets once were, sooner then this is better than us staying there leveling cities every few months.
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
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Offline Mongoose

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
What do I see?  I see Iraqi expatriates around the world crying tears of joy as they are finally able to vote for a new, democratic government in their home.  I see coalition and Iraqi forces creating the conditions for a safe, stable election day.  I see voters in Iraq dressing in burial shrouds, symbolizing their willingness to die in order to exercise their newfound right to vote.  I see, by and large, an election much better than the doomsday predictions of a week ago.  It's not me that has to grow up; it's the rest of you.  Your hatred for Bush and any actions he has taken has completely blinded you to the good that has happened today.  Iraq is now free, free to choose their own leaders, free to choose their own destiny.  Isn't that worth the price of war?  Apparently not; some of you equate coalition forces with the Nazi occupiers of much of Europe.  And 45% doesn't represent a legitimate election?  Last time I checked, we've had turnouts in the US worse than that, without the threat of death.  Pretty sad, isn't it? If the Sunnis didn't vote, their loss.  They had their chance.  And, no matter what you might think, I'm sure that not every Kurd is ready to revolt; they turned out today as well.  The Shi'ite majority, so long oppressed, turned out in droves and will finally regain political power.  So, to you naysayers, cynics, and general wise***es, I say to you, close your damn mouths for once.  Your anti-Bush circle jerk has gone on for far too long here.

 

Offline Bobboau

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
was there a candidate with the position of kicking us out as soon as they got into office?
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline vyper

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
Ahuh.

You remind me of a brownshirt, but we'll address that another time.

This election will not help build a free and democratic Iraq. It will destroy whatever faith the Iraqi people had in democracy because no matter who wins, the people will not get what they want: No real withdrawal of US troops, and if there is they'll be replaced by CIA operatives. No real change in cultural freedoms. No control of their own natural resources. No control of.... ah ****it, just go read about the US's past conquests if you want a real lesson.

Please, don't sit there pretending everything is going to be ok and in the end it's been the neo-con fascists who saved the day.

I live safe in the knowledge that in a few years we're gonna go through this with China, and then the EU. Predictable world.
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline vyper

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
was there a candidate with the position of kicking us out as soon as they got into office?


One Ayatolla (sp?) did campaign on that. However, he's also the Iraqi equivelant of the modern republican party.

Neo-Con Christians are bad, but restrained by the checks and balances we've managed to build into our civilization over the years.
Neo-Con Muslims = bad **** all round. Especially when they'll still sell oil to the highest bidder and ass **** their own people in the process (read: Saudi Arabia).
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Gank

  • 27
weird how this hasn't been mentioned
Actually Sadr isnt running. And I doubt hes what you'd a neo-con muslim, the Sadrist organisation gets its support base from poor areas, is Shia in makeup and is about as far from Wahabbi Saudi ideology as umm, well they arent really all that similar. He is a theocrat though, with all the good/bad that brings. Asia times did a good article on his turf a few weeks back:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GA12Ak02.html
Seems like his wee part of Iraq is the only part that actually works right.

Btw hes not an Ayatollah, not even a cleric afaik.

 

Offline Gank

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
I live safe in the knowledge that in a few years we're gonna go through this with China, and then the EU. Predictable world.


If China invades anyone we wont see anything like elections, democratic or not. Plus I think most of the EU has gone through its stage of forcing its will on others, and realised that it never works out the way you want it, and always leaves one hell of a mess.

 

Offline Bobboau

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
he might not have been talking about Sadr,
didn't he select not to take part in the elections? (i.e. we didn't ban him he just gave the whole election thing the finger)
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Flipside

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050131/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq

'Insurgents struck polling stations with a string of suicide bombings and mortar volleys, killing at least 44 people, including nine suicide bombers. '

Not quite as peaceful as all that :(

I still think Iraqs National Anthem is going to end up being the Thunderbirds theme, but I remain optomistic none the less ;)

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
I like how Iraq is a magical land of cupcakes and ponies now that people are voting.

It's the typical fallacy of looking at human affairs in programming values.

"If voting = yes, then situation = fine."

Just for the record, I would like very much for the optimists to be right, because it would mean that America might be able to remove its dick from Iraq's ass and we could get on with civilization.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2005, 08:43:50 pm by 2015 »
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Offline Rictor

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
if it gets us out of there faster it's a good thing though, yes?


Well, that much we can agree on. The only question is whether the elections will expediate that, or delay it. It could be neither, and that the troops will leave when either they can force the insurgency out, which is unlikely, or when the insurgency can force them out, which is also unlikely. I don't see Iraqi opinion really improving on the matter, and both the US and the rebels have enough bodies to keep the fight going for a while.

Personally, I think Bush will keep them around for "nation-building" or "to provide security" until the end of his term, and then whoever comes after, probably a Democrat, gets stuck with not being able to withdraw them right away, if at all, for fear of looking like a coward.

 

Offline Bobboau

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weird how this hasn't been mentioned
I hope we can get out of there some time in the next year or two.

hope is a wonderful thing to have isn't it? even if it dosen't actualy help anything.
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together