[FireCrack]

Mabye there's lotsa wind in the mainhalls being blown down from fans?

[Kie99]

I think the Elysiums do produce gravity, but the Azrael (Shivan  transport) doesn't.

I think the way FS would get around artificial gravity (If it ever had to) would say that its a newly discovered technology called [insert very long unpronouncable name here].

EDIT:  I did put the unpronouncable name bit before, but I put it in Greater Than and Less Than signs so the board thought I was doing HTML code.  I want just copying Carl.

[Carl]

Originally posted by Lukeskywalkie
The largest problem with 'artificial gravity', is that it's...well...artificial. Gravity is a physical law; we've quantified gravity, but only in terms of mass, because that's how gravity exists - sufficient mass. in order to have gravity comparable to earth, you have to have an object equal in mass to that of earth. So, any notion of ships being large enough to possess noticeable gravity is out of the picture.

artifical gravity isn't real gravity, since it is artifical. it just has to simulate it. there are a number of possible ways of creating artifical gravity. particles with negative mass that quickly decay could be shot up from special emmiters in the floor, for instance.

[aldo_14]

Or magical sci-fi pixie dust.

[WMCoolmon]

That's what carl said

[Carl]

what i said wasn't just some random technobabble, just so you know.

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by Carl
artifical gravity isn't real gravity, since it is artifical

Like artificial electricity?

We don't know until we prove it can / cannot be done.

[Lukeskywalkie]

Ah, but threrin lies my point. Artificial Electricity, i.e. man-made electricity, still retains all the properties of electricity. Artificial gravity is a misnomer. Simulated gravity is a much better term for this problem.

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon


*Chuckles* I can't help but think that that's what people probably said about lightning/electricity.

Wrong. Electromagnetism has never needed a large mass to exert an appreciable effect, Handheld magnets can lift pieces of iron off a table and EM forces hold your own particles together, both in complete defiance of the gravitational force exerted by a 6.6-sextillion-ton (yes, that's a real number, and no, it's not funny) planet. Don't confuse the superstitious babbling of uneducated fools in the 19th century with real scientists who are probing the deepest secrets of the universe. Most likely, the GTA's artificial "gravity" is itself a form of electromagnetism.

[karajorma]

.   <----------------- Here's a point for you Woolie.

Feel free to shoot at it all you like. I already know that you're good at missing them.

[FireCrack]

mabye the ships have internal gyrating chambers?

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by Woolie Wool


Wrong. Electromagnetism has never needed a large mass to exert an appreciable effect, Handheld magnets can lift pieces of iron off a table and EM forces hold your own particles together, both in complete defiance of the gravitational force exerted by a 6.6-sextillion-ton (yes, that's a real number, and no, it's not funny) planet. Don't confuse the superstitious babbling of uneducated fools in the 19th century with real scientists who are probing the deepest secrets of the universe. Most likely, the GTA's artificial "gravity" is itself a form of electromagnetism.

Saying "you need a planet to have gravity" seems analogous to "you need a thunderstorm to have electricity".

Who would've thought that people could make their own electricity, and even moved their muscles through electrical currents?

By the same token I hear a lot of talk about large masses causing gravity, but no one really seems to knows what gravity is. We "understand" gravity in the same way that someone who simply measured lightning with a volt meter and a thermometer would understand electricity.

It seems just as plausible to me that the GTVA invented some anti-grav device as they perfected a form of electromagnetism without any problems of immense power requirements, brain damage, electronics problems, evening the field out through the whole ship, etc.

[karajorma]

Exactly WMC. When someone actually finds the graviton then maybe I'll believe that a large mass is the only way to generate them.

Till then anyone who says they understand how gravity works is talking crap. Even if they have a PhD in the subject

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon


Saying "you need a planet to have gravity" seems analogous to "you need a thunderstorm to have electricity".

Who would've thought that people could make their own electricity, and even moved their muscles through electrical currents?

By the same token I hear a lot of talk about large masses causing gravity, but no one really seems to knows what gravity is. We "understand" gravity in the same way that someone who simply measured lightning with a volt meter and a thermometer would understand electricity.

It seems just as plausible to me that the GTVA invented some anti-grav device as they perfected a form of electromagnetism without any problems of immense power requirements, brain damage, electronics problems, evening the field out through the whole ship, etc.

You once again are completely wrong. No matter what technology we have, gravity is 24 orders of magnitude weaker than electromagnetism, and will always be that way. Electromagnetism can do anything that gravity can do, only about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (24 zeroes!) times better. This is why a handheld magnet can out-pull the Earth.

[karajorma]

You do of course realise that there are enormous drawbacks to attempting to use electrostatic attraction as a replacement for gravity?

"Welcome to the GTD Woolie Wool. The crew are all dead again at the moment. The seem to all die of electric shocks when we attempt to turn our AG field on"



Besides as I said before when you can find me a gravition and prove that it's energy can only exist in that particular quantum level and that furthermore there is no possibility that you couldn't fake gravity using another elementary particle then I might believe you're not talking out of your arse.

[Ghostavo]

karajorma, do you know any other spin 2 particle?

[Flipside]

The problem with hanging around Electromagnetic fields too much is that Magnetism is contagious, and the last thing you want is all the iron in your blood starting to become charged and attracting/repulsing each other, not good for circulation

Also, it's not just a question of power, it a question of controlled acceleration. Magnets tend to be exponential in their behaviour, which is fine if you don't mind scraping the crew off the rear bulkhead after each journey

I'm not saying it's impossible to use Magnetism, but it's not like making a monorail, your ship would have to cope with the Magnetic field in the upper Atmosphere to make sure it does not lose control of it's own magnetic field. Considering our magnetic field is in flux at the moment, that would take some pretty daredevil engineering

[karajorma]

I'm not saying there is one. I just find it hard to accept this kind of nonsense from someone who has previously argued that Star Wars ships have perfectly sensible energy outputs.

AG is no less sensible than warping space, hyperspace or any of the other myriad other ideas that we commonly see in sci-fi. Why it's being picked on and said to be impossible is beyond me.

19th century scientists spent a hell of a long time trying to detect the presence of the universal ether because since sound propogated through a medium then light had to as well.
Of course they were completely wrong and we know a lot more now than we did then but it is worth remembering that the graviton is almost completely hypothetical. The hypothesis is based upon the way light waves are made up of photons so therefore gravity waves should be made up of gravitons. We've not even been able to detect gravity waves let alone a single particle.
The possibility is there for a huge upset which is why I get annoyed with people who like Woolie think you can start ruling things out on the basis of an unproven hypothesis.

Do I think quantum theory is wrong? To be frank I don't think anyone on this board is qualified to make a judgement in either direction. As a scientist though I think you should always keep an open mind and always make sure that your assumptions are always viewed as exactly that.

[Woolie Wool]

I did not say that SW had sensible energy outputs. I said that the 200GT turbolaser figures were canon. I said nothing about whether they were sensible or feasible in real life, only that SW has them. Actually, a 10-ton matter/antimatter warhead would be around 200GT, so it's not really that silly. Assuming that you could get the 5-ton antimatter part of the warhead in the first place.

[WMCoolmon]

You once again are completely wrong. No matter what technology we have, gravity is 24 orders of magnitude weaker than electromagnetism, and will always be that way. Electromagnetism can do anything that gravity can do, only about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (24 zeroes!) times better. This is why a handheld magnet can out-pull the Earth.

But that's just even worse. The greater efficiency is nice, but you start tossing around electromagnets powerful enough to attract people, with enough force to simulate 1G, and you won't be able to use *any* metal objects. Not to mention that any type of 'radio', in the classical sense, will probably be utterly worthless. And God help the guy who was wearing a watch when the field was turned on; he's gonna be minus a hand since the field will effect his watch far more than it does his hand.

Hopefully the electronics on board are shielded as well.

Not to mention what effect that's going to have on the crew's brains, and any inhabited planets or ships nearby. (OTOH, this might explain why wingmen seem to be inextricably attracted to other vessels, and often end up slamming into them repeatedly.)