Author Topic: Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code  (Read 5125 times)

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Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
  • 215
    • Hard Light Productions
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
 
Quote
Originally posted by Raven2001:
Hey Setekh, I sent you a message over ICQ, you could at least reply to it......

I've got no messages waiting for me here - and the last message that my ICQ has logged to have received from you is '**** , gotta go bye  '.  
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline IceFire

  • GTVI Section 3
  • 212
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ce
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
Lets not forget Interplay was taken over...and they are pretty much a non-entity right now.
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline penguin

  • Eudyptes codus
  • 28
  • Still alive.
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
I wonder what the development time for the FS1/FS2 engine is, as compared with the development of missions, campaigns, ships, etc. (and let's not forget studio time for Robert "Admiral Petrarch" Loggia   )

What is involved in the actual FS2.EXE?  Here's what I can come up with, off the top of my head:

1. The 3d engine (rendering ships, weapons, stars, etc.)  

1a. The collision detection stuff to determine if a weapon (or ship, or asteroid, etc.) has smacked a ship or it's shields.

1b. The HUD display.
2. The physics stuff to track where everything is, and how it's moving... also the turning times, max speeds, etc. of the various objects; handling damage to shields / hulls / subsystems, etc.

3. The AI stuff: how enemies and wingmates react to various events.  This also would apply to aspect- and heat-tracking missles, I guess.

4. The parser(s) to read in the *.tbl files and make sense of them.

5.  The mission engine to handle doing things that are supposed to happen -- ie interpreting the SEXP's

6. Network stuff and whatever else is required for MP missions
7. Everything else  

7a. The in-game user interface -- handling input from the player (flying the ship, sending messages, using weapons)

7b. The "out-of-game" user interface -- briefings, selecting ships and loadout, etc.  And the cool Vasudan cap-ship interface  

7c. Sounds.

7d. Whatever else I forgot about.


My point (I do have one) is that most of these are not trivial, but neither are they insurmountable.  It seems to me that a big chunk of the development by   was developing the missions and other stuff that we already have in a usable format -- all the *.tbl and *.pof files.

If you look at the "bugfix of the day" at freespace2.com (I think) most of the stuff is mission related... Of course this could be because most of these posts were late in the dev't cycle (and the engine, etc. were already complete), or also because much of the engine stuff was ported with little modification from FS1.
So even if   and/or interplay don't give up the souce, a determined bunch of developers could write it.  BTW I am not volunteering to do this myself   , but would be happy to assist...
your source code slave

 
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
Hmmm...

Anyone here have much experience with Assembler language?  I think my uncle might have an assembler 'decompiler' written, if I can get in touch with him that is...
I told you that It would be done by November, well, mostly anyway...

I'm working on something new... shhhhh, it's a seceret.

 

Offline penguin

  • Eudyptes codus
  • 28
  • Still alive.
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
 
Quote
Originally posted by jonskowitz:
Hmmm...

Anyone here have much experience with Assembler language?  I think my uncle might have an assembler 'decompiler' written, if I can get in touch with him that is...


You don't want to go this route... if you hack or disassemble the   code, you are then violating the license agreement, etc.  -- I haven't looked at the actual license agreement for FS/FS2 (who does?) but that's standard language.

If you want to write a new version (either open-source or closed-source, doesn't matter), and don't want to get sued, you need to have a "clean room" development environment.  Your developers will write based on defined specs ("This is how the HUD should behave," "This is the format for ships.tbl"), but they can never look at the   code, not even a little.
Anyhow, trying to comprehend a disassembled 2.3M EXE (that was probably written in C and/or C++ to begin with) would be way more challenging than writing a new one from scratch, IMO.  
your source code slave

 
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
Yeah, I know, you're right...

It's just a little frustrating that   treats its fans and mod community like they're annoying pests at the best of times while the Homeworld staff and whoever did Half-life cheers and supports thier communities whole-heartedly.

I know I'm probably seeing this wrong but it's just the way it looks to me...

[This message has been edited by jonskowitz (edited 10-06-2001).]
I told you that It would be done by November, well, mostly anyway...

I'm working on something new... shhhhh, it's a seceret.

 

Offline Neon

  • 26
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
You're way wrong!!!

  is trying to get permission to release the source code, MAYBE, now with thq that isn't a big dumb a$$ like interplay(thq are little dumb a$$es  ) we can get the code!

  guys are cool and care with the community  

 

Offline Nico

  • Venom
    Parlez-vous Model Magician?
  • 212
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
 
Quote
Originally posted by Neon:
You're way wrong!!!

    is trying to get permission to release the source code, MAYBE, now with thq that isn't a big dumb a$$ like interplay(thq are little dumb a$$es     ) we can get the code!

hem, that changes nothing, since freespace is property of interplay, not THQ.

[This message has been edited by venom2506 (edited 10-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by venom2506 (edited 10-07-2001).]
SCREW CANON!

 
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
Oops! silly me, spitting venom at the wrong people... sorry    
I told you that It would be done by November, well, mostly anyway...

I'm working on something new... shhhhh, it's a seceret.

 

Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
  • 215
    • Hard Light Productions
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
Don't worry, I'm sure   has heard your prayers...  
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline Martinus

  • Aka Maeglamor
  • 210
    • Hard Light Productions
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
 
Quote
Originally posted by jonskowitz:
Hmmm...

Anyone here have much experience with Assembler language?  I think my uncle might have an assembler 'decompiler' written, if I can get in touch with him that is...

Do you have any idea how mindbendingly tedious it would be to program any significant portion of a game like FS in assembler? Assembler is best kept for optimisation. It is possible but you'd need to be crazy or on crack  


[This message has been edited by Maeglamor (edited 10-09-2001).]

 

Offline YodaSean

  • 27
  • i am so special
    • http://www.geocities.com/radioactiveyeti
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
 
Quote
Originally posted by jonskowitz:
Hmmm...

Anyone here have much experience with Assembler language?  I think my uncle might have an assembler 'decompiler' written, if I can get in touch with him that is...

LOL!    It would probably be quicker to attempt to make an exact copy of the game than use a disassembler(or at least be pretty close)


------------------

 
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
lol

Considering how much free time some HLP memebers seem to have I didn't think it would be much of a problem.
I told you that It would be done by November, well, mostly anyway...

I'm working on something new... shhhhh, it's a seceret.

 

Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
  • 215
    • Hard Light Productions
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
 
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor:
It is possible but you'd need to be crazy or on crack  

...

Well, darkage is both, so...  
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline Neon

  • 26
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
 

 

Offline Darkage

  • CRAZY RENDER RABBIT
  • 211
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
 
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh:
...

Well, darkage is both, so...  

I stoped useing space crack hmm..thats a lie And yes i am still insane and hott  

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Offline Neon

  • 26
Thoughts: Why Volition doesn't releases Freespace Source Code
 
Quote
Originally posted by darkage:
I stoped useing space crack   hmm..thats a lie   And yes i am still insane and hott    


I must report to GTVA police... Sorry man, they gotta to know were you got space crack... GTVA Admirals are needing some