[Kie99]

Not solely in head to head but as general purpose warships.  Which would be more likely to survive a Juggernaut-less war against the GTVA?

[aldo_14]

Ravana, no doubt whatsoever.

[Kie99]

Why?  The Demon has a stronger hull (160000 hitpoints), the same weapons (2 Lreds and an Sred), and can attack ships coming at it from any direction apart from the back.

The Ravana, however can only attack ships in front of it (unless that SRed on the pylon can attack the sides, even so its only got the same power as a Cain's beam.) and has a weaker hull.(100000 Hitpoints)

IMO the difference in strength between the Ravana and Demon is similar to the difference between the Orion and Hecate.  The old ship is better than the new one.

P.S. I sense another argument between me and Aldo

[kv1at3485]

It all depends on the positioning.

If the Demon can get out of the forward firing arc of the Ravana, the Demon will have no problems.  If the Ravana can get the Demon in its sights, the Ravana will eat the Demon for lunch.

[Kie99]

Not solely in head to head but as general purpose warships

[Andreas]

I agree with kv1at3485 in here; they are pretty equal warships, and whichever wins will greatly depend upon the situtiation they are in, and what sort of fightercover they have. Like any destroyer, they need fighters and bombers to help them.

[Rand al Thor]

The demon is a much less capable anti-fighter/bomber ship. While the ravana has some big holes in its screen too its better.

And aren't the Ravanas hitpoints only 80,000?

I'd still have to go with her.

[Kie99]

80, 000 HP = Deimos
90, 000 HP = Iceni
100, 000 HP = Ravana, Orion, Hecate.
160, 000 HP = Demon
135, 000 HP = Hatshepsut
120, 000 HP = Typhon
400, 000 HP = Hades
800, 000 HP = Lucifer
1, 000, 000 HP = Colossus, Sathanas, Knossos

I checked the Tables again

[pyro-manic]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
Not solely in head to head but as general purpose warships.  Which would be more likely to survive a Juggernaut-less war against the GTVA?

Purely on stats, or taking into account actual fighting?

Stats-wise, they're about equal. Demon has stronger hull and larger fire cones, but the Ravana has vast firepower to use on it's target, giving a very quick kill.

In an actual strategic situation, however, the Ravana wins hands-down. The Shivans are always the aggressor, so they attack far more than they defend. The Ravana is one of the most lethal offensive vessels in the game (comes behind only the Sath and maybe the Colossus) - there is nothing that can defeat a Ravana from a defensive position other than the Colossus (an Orion might get lucky if it destroys enough turrets on it's first volley, but it's unlikely), so the Ravana has to be the better option. I personally prefer the Demon in terms of design, but it suffers compared to FS2 Shivan ships due to bad turret placement and poor AAA cover.

EDIT: And you've got your stats wrong. The Typhon has 120,000 hitpoints, and the Hatshepsut has 135,000.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
Why?  The Demon has a stronger hull (160000 hitpoints), the same weapons (2 Lreds and an Sred), and can attack ships coming at it from any direction apart from the back.

The Ravana, however can only attack ships in front of it (unless that SRed on the pylon can attack the sides, even so its only got the same power as a Cain's beam.) and has a weaker hull.(100000 Hitpoints)

IMO the difference in strength between the Ravana and Demon is similar to the difference between the Orion and Hecate.  The old ship is better than the new one.

P.S. I sense another argument between me and Aldo

Because the GTVA seemed more scared of the Ravana in the nebula than it was of any Demon class destroyer.  It tore several ships into shreds prior to that mission, IIRC.

That and..... well, just look at the thing - it's ****ing evil looking!  You could stab people with it... or open tin cans.

[Ghostavo]

Ravana is far deadlier than the Demon (against fighters/bombers also), while mantaining the Demon's fighterbay... what's the doubt?

[Kie99]

The question is "What would be more likely to survive the 2nd Great war if Juggernauts and Lucifers were not involved?"  And I think the Demon would because it has better armour.

Sure the Ravana can kill a Destroyer in about 5 minutes if its facing it head on, but how often do you see the GTVA fighting their enemy with a craft of equal power(apart from with fighters)?

The GTVA would know not to send a destroyer against the Ravana because it would get fried, they would send a corvette, on one of its 3 blind sides, with some bombers and fighter cover (like in Slaying Ravana).

If they tried that against a Demon the Corvette would have to get in right behind the Demon to avoid getting slaughtered, and it would take longer to kill it, allowing the demon to deploy more fighters and bombers to kill the corvette and neutralize the bombers.

The over-hyped anti-fighter defences on a ravana can be quickly neutralized by a Harpoon or 2, but it takes longer on a Demon because of the higher hull strength.

Oh yeah and in a war with the GTVA a Demon can take out any GTVA destroyer apart from the Hades, so the head to head stats wouldn't really matter for this debate.

[pyro-manic]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
The question is "What would be more likely to survive the 2nd Great war if Juggernauts and Lucifers were not involved?"  And I think the Demon would because it has better armour.

Sure the Ravana can kill a Destroyer in about 5 minutes if its facing it head on, but how often do you see the GTVA fighting their enemy with a craft of equal power(apart from with fighters)?

The GTVA would know not to send a destroyer against the Ravana because it would get fried, they would send a corvette, on one of its 3 blind sides, with some bombers and fighter cover (like in Slaying Ravana).

If they tried that against a Demon the Corvette would have to get in right behind the Demon to avoid getting slaughtered, and it would take longer to kill it, allowing the demon to deploy more fighters and bombers to kill the corvette and neutralize the bombers.

The over-hyped anti-fighter defences on a ravana can be quickly neutralized by a Harpoon or 2, but it takes longer on a Demon because of the higher hull strength.

Oh yeah and in a war with the GTVA a Demon can take out any GTVA destroyer apart from the Hades, so the head to head stats wouldn't really matter for this debate.

You seem to have missed the point. Shivans attack. They don't sit there waiting for you to niftily jump in behind them and kick them in the arse.

[aldo_14]

How often do the GTVA get to pick their fights against the Shivans, though?  Of course, the Ravana could just deploy cruisers to protect its own sides, or more fighters (as the Shivans have fighter-carrying cruisers, possibly the Ravanas complement is more free to protect its base rather than perform wide-ranging patrols and escorts)

[SadisticSid]

I'd favour the Demon, because you need bomb hits or Trebs to disable its LRed turrets - anything with a Subach can cripple the Ravana's armament if it gets close enough.

[Kie99]

The GTVA got to pick their fight in Slaying Ravana, the Corvettes jumped in where it couldn't hit them.  The Ravana wasn't attacking then and got found out.  I didn't see any cruisers being deployed then.

P.S. Could some Admin rename this thread Kietotheworld [edit]and SadisticSid[/edit] Vs. HLP?

[pyro-manic]

No they didn't. The Actium and Lysander were attacked by the Ravana. The Lysander was lost, and so were numerous other ships, including a destroyer, before Alpha wing successfully attacked it with bombs.

[Kie99]

Well in Slaying Ravana the Ravana was most definetely on the defensive, I don't think anyone here wouold contest that.

cue contesting of point

[aldo_14]

Well, in the GTVAs attempts to locate that Ravana they lost a corvette, a destroyer, and suffered damage to multiple other warships.  It's possible more ships than that were destroyed, too;

[q]This is Lieutenant Samsa. The allied attack against the SD Ravana has deteriorated. We've lost the GTD Delacroix, and the surviving warships in the battle group are damaged. Petrarch is scrambling the 107th to assist. Command will also sortie the GVC Somtus and the GTC Yakiba. Once they cross the subspace portal, we will move them into position.[/q]

(note the 'surviving warships'; implies maybe others were lost)

So it was a very effective defense at the least.....

[phreak]

Ravana wins against GTVA.  Demons are too easy to disable