[TopAce]

In a face-to-face situation it would kill the Ravana. But if you were to attack one of them with a bomber... the Lucifer would be an easier target.

[Moonsword]

Removing the shield from the equation, yeah, it would be.  Not enough AA defenses... unless it launches fighters.

[Cobra]

that's what the weapon editor in FRD is for.

[Kie99]

Originally posted by Cobra
that's what the weapon editor in FRD is for.

Winter Time's Freezing? (WTF)

I take it FRD means FRED?  There is no Weapon editor in FRED.

[Hippo]

yes there is

[Cobra]

oops, forgot the "E".

[Star-Epock]

Unless your fight takes palce in subspace (Where the L still wins are you calculations show) the L would win due to the fact its impervious to any weapon.

Hence the five massive reactors. The Lucifer is a Super Shild Ship, it cant be lumped in with standard warships.

The weapons it uses the SSL are NOT beam weapons. Im sure they were used since the Lucifer has a ROLE its a not a standard Carrier/Warship like the Deamon and Ravenna are.

The SSL Have the dual plantery use dont forget, that is thier PRIMARY use I should imagine, since the lucifer used them to decimate Vasuda primes major citys.

Now if you whatch the FS2 Intro movie you will note the beams it fires DO NOT come from the SSL weapon hardpoints, but fire from the flanks of the warship. Since the battle of Deneb happened in FS1, we can assume that Alpha one (Us in FS1) Does not witness the Lucifer using this secondary armamnet in any missions (The lucifer is always forward facing)

I am interested to know however what you think the side mounted weapon is, L Red? (That is the one which carves an Orion open)

[Cobra]

uhm...

there were no beams in-game in FS1. FS1 didn't have proper rendering capabilities for beams, just the SSLs. furthermore, that was a cutscene in FS2, so, you get the idea.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Star-Epock
Now if you whatch the FS2 Intro movie you will note the beams it fires DO NOT come from the SSL weapon hardpoints, but fire from the flanks of the warship. Since the battle of Deneb happened in FS1, we can assume that Alpha one (Us in FS1) Does not witness the Lucifer using this secondary armamnet in any missions (The lucifer is always forward facing)

The beams coming from the wrong place is one of the most famous errors in FS2. They're meant to come from the front where the SSL were in FS1.

You may also notice that the Manticore fires lasers from its missle points and missles from its gun points.

And that's without mentioning the strange appearance of the Hades in Deneb.

[Mongoose]

That FS2 cutscene is also inaccurate, as there were never any weapon points on the in-game model at those locations.  There were several inaccuracies throughout the FS2 cutscenes.

[Star-Epock]

Originally posted by Cobra
uhm...

there were no beams in-game in FS1. FS1 didn't have proper rendering capabilities for beams, just the SSLs. furthermore, that was a cutscene in FS2, so, you get the idea.

Yes I know there were no beams in FS1 I just completed it about 5 Mins ago.

Yes Fs1 Didnt have rendering capabilities for beams, thats obvious.

I said into, are you really going to pick bones about intro and cutscene??? I dont see your argument.

Rant:
What is it with this community about constantly striving to discredit others? All I see now catching up on the boards is nit picks at peoples work and campaigns, never a word of thanks or appretiation. There are some people here who really work hard, and are more dedicated than I had thought possible.

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?

I know its very hard to match V, since what they produced is essentialy perfection. This rant isnt really to do with this topic, I just couldent help myself. For instance people spend wekks making a site or project, show it to the community and what do they get: "That image at the top overlaps another a bit" etc. Thats not constructive critisism, why cant we say.
"Wow exellent work there! I see you have a few minor ajustments to make but I can imaging what its like once they are done, good stuff!"
Rant Over:

[Cobra]

Originally posted by karajorma
You may also notice that the Manticore fires lasers from its missle points and missles from its gun points.

*goes to edit firing points*

[Cobra]

Voila:

Manticore v1.0

[Hippo]

Originally posted by Star-Epock


Yes I know there were no beams in FS1 I just completed it about 5 Mins ago.

Yes Fs1 Didnt have rendering capabilities for beams, thats obvious.

I said into, are you really going to pick bones about intro and cutscene??? I dont see your argument.

Rant:
What is it with this community about constantly striving to discredit others? All I see now catching up on the boards is nit picks at peoples work and campaigns, never a word of thanks or appretiation. There are some people here who really work hard, and are more dedicated than I had thought possible.

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?

I know its very hard to match V, since what they produced is essentialy perfection. This rant isnt really to do with this topic, I just couldent help myself. For instance people spend wekks making a site or project, show it to the community and what do they get: "That image at the top overlaps another a bit" etc. Thats not constructive critisism, why cant we say.
"Wow exellent work there! I see you have a few minor ajustments to make but I can imaging what its like once they are done, good stuff!"
Rant Over:

Calm down.

Based on the fact that the vasudans discovered beams, after studying captured (and terminated) shivan technology, between the first and second war, leads us to belive that the SSL's are in fact primitive beams. Beams were coded into FS1 and it is, in theory, fully capeable to use beams, but they hadn't gotten the rendering bugs out of it, so they opted to use the SSL. There is also no evidence that FS2 beams cannot attack planetary targets.

The FS2 intro was NOT by any means done in game. It was rendered, and apparently, someone confused some facts, like the firing points, and easily confused where the lucifer beam origonated. Remember, they were using unpoffed models, so they probably had little to no guidance about where each turret was. Its safe to asume then, that it was simply a mistake that the beam came from there. Afterall, if there really WAS a beam there, it could have been used to destroy the Hope/Pinnacle in "A failure to communicate", and all other references of lucifer destruction were head on.

If you consider the intro canon as is, then you also have to accept that everything in it is true, which directly contradicts what is seen in-game, and then becomes a paridoxial state. This is why we usually do NOT consider the cutscenes canon, only the game itself.

[Kie99]

Originally posted by Hippo
Based on the fact that the vasudans discovered beams, after studying captured (and terminated) shivan technology, between the first and second war, leads us to belive that the SSL's are in fact primitive beams. Beams were coded into FS1 and it is, in theory, fully capable of using beams, but they hadn't gotten the rendering bugs out of it, so they opted to use the SSL. There is also no evidence that FS2 beams cannot attack planetary targets.

There is Zero canon evidence that that the GTVA's beams were reverse engineered from Shivan ones.  I don't know why people keep spouting this Bulls**t.  The evidence against them being the same is as follows:
1.  They are completely Different colours
2.  The GTVA's beams are photon beam cannons, the Lucifer's are flux cannons.
3.  The Lucifer's beams are in Sol, and the scans from a busted up dragon won't be able to replicate Shivan beams.
4.  No other Shivan vessel had beams.
5.  There is no evidence that they are the same.
6.  The GTVA beams gather light towards them, the Lucifer's beams don't.  (But I suppose this is an engine limitation.)

[Cobra]

heed hippo's words, he is wise.

[Star-Epock]

http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/cutscenes/****vore02.jpg


Ok, in a failure to communicate the Hope is a loooong way ahead of the Lucifer, the lucifer jumps through the debris of the station immeditly after it destroyes it. It is never side on.

In my link you see said area that FS2 Intro beam originates from. In the little video of this seen in the GTA briefing the three prongs can be seen "twitching".

I dont think you should base the FS universe in what you find on the Models and tables. Though I will spend some time explaining the manticore thing, that is just plain careless

The Lucifer may have a plethora of other uses, wepons and capabliities, which it does not use. Just because V did not put them on the model does not mean they may not exist in the FS Universe.

[Hippo]

[q]In my link you see said area that FS2 Intro beam originates from. In the little video of this seen in the GTA briefing the three prongs can be seen "twitching".[/q]

I disagree with that... That structure thing can also be seen in the Tombach station attach cbani, but it also looks a lot like the shield emitter (we assume) in the lab cutscene, and were never actually modeled into the game lucifer, so i think that was so look like the lucifer's shield system...


[q]There is Zero canon evidence that that the GTVA's beams were reverse engineered from Shivan ones. I don't know why people keep spouting this Bulls**t. The evidence against them being the same is as follows:
1. They are completely Different colours
2. The GTVA's beams are photon beam cannons, the Lucifer's are flux cannons.
3. The Lucifer's beams are in Sol, and the scans from a busted up dragon won't be able to replicate Shivan beams.
4. No other Shivan vessel had beams.
5. There is no evidence that they are the same.
6. The GTVA beams gather light towards them, the Lucifer's beams don't. (But I suppose this is an engine limitation.)[/q]

1: Yeah, so are LRBGreens, VBas', AAAf's, TSlash, and every other terran/vasudan beam. Colour has absolutely nothing to do with it.

2: So? Its also stated that GTVA ships run on fusion drives, and another type (i can't remember which) in two canon places.

3: The lucifer wasn't the only existance of beams. Every shivan had a beam (albeit small) and it IS canon that the GTI kept LIVE shivan's, presumeably dead ones (unless they all exploded like in Hallfight), along with all the debris that they gathered in ross 128 (also canon)...

4: But the shivans did.

5: There's just as little evidence that they're completely different as well.

6: Yes, most likely rendering.

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by kietotheworld

3.  The Lucifer's beams are in Sol, and the scans from a busted up dragon won't be able to replicate Shivan beams.

There's also presumably sensor readings taken by the Hope, the comm station, and Alpha wing during "A Failure to Communicate", the survivours of the Galatea's aerospace group during "Doomsday", recordings of the Lucifer in action from the seige of Vasuda Prime, and possibly ground-based recordings from Ribos IV of the Tombaugh Station attack.

[StratComm]

The Lucifer's beams were originally supposed to originate from those pods on the side, but that was changed, I think, when the model went from concept to game.  There is some anecdotal evidence that the beams were moved after the cutscenes for FS1 were made, as there is no cutscene showing the Lucifer actually firing.  That's only shown in-game.  However, from the assault on Vasuda Prime ani, we can see that the Shivan Super Laser is supposed to be much more like the beams of FS2 than the missile trails that were used to hack it for the one time the Lucifer shot in game.