[vyper]

Which one of us essentially called an entire race of people animals, implied condoms were ineffective against STDs and... oh **** it you're one of them there's no point.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by TrashMan
Condoms aren't 100% effective, everyone knows that.

Yes. In the developing world they "know" that they are 30% effective and no barrier at all against AIDS thanks to the teachings of the Vatican.

Can you not see the kind of damage that kind of deliberate misinformation caused? You're claiming that these people lack the self control to stop having sex and then thinking that removing the one form of contraception and AIDS prevention they do have access to is a waste of time.


The rest is a matter of opinion and the pope has the right to think whatever he likes in the matter but I'm not prepared to forgive outright blatant lies from someone who is supposedly above that sort of thing.

[aldo_14]

For reference; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3176982.stm

edit;
also-
http://www.libchrist.com/std/vaticanlies.html
http://www.condoms4life.org/facts/CondomsAndAIDS.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/23/health/main608255.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3843797.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3237358.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html

First 2 are, incidentally, from Christian (don't know denomination) and Catholic sources respectively.

[.::Tin Can::.]

We go from remorsing the Pope's death and you guys wanna talk about condoms...

It really IS the only issue interesting anymore isnt it?

[Ace]

*Stops blowing into a "baloon"*

Condoms? What are those?

[Ford Prefect]

No one seems to be touching on the fact that John Paul II was vocal in opposition to America's invasion of Iraq.

And yes, condoms are the only issue that anyone finds interesting anymore. Starting tomorrow, television and radio will be all condom channels, all the time. Big ones, small ones, glow-in-the-dark, flavored. Condoms are the new iPods.

[Solatar]

Glow in the dark? That's an insult...like you need runway lights to find it or something...

I've noticed that people around here love criticising people. Oh well, it IS an internet forum afterall...who cares.

[phreak]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Starting tomorrow, television and radio will be all condom channels, all the time. Big ones, small ones, glow-in-the-dark, flavored. Condoms are the new iPods.

There's no money in small condoms, on TV at least.

[Taristin]

I must resist the urge to take a Kazan quote and make fun of Asia.

[redsniper]

What Raa would have posted:
"From a purely statistical standpoint, Japanese men do have smaller penii on average." -Kazan

[Taristin]

No, actually, I was going to post something witty about there being a large market for small condoms in asia. But it would have been better had you not quoted Kazan.

[redsniper]

I just remembered seeing that quote in someone's sig so I figured it was what you were talking about.
EDIT: Grrrr... TIMEWARP!

[Bobboau]

yeah, you killed the joke.

[Terminator]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf
A bit sad, but as he was suffering, it's good that the suffering is over.

My question is who the next Pope will be. Also, why does no one ever mention the other Catholic Patriarchs? Only the Patriarch of Rome (the Pope) ever gets mentioned.

I think the next pope should be called Aken I:nervous:

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
No one seems to be touching on the fact that John Paul II was vocal in opposition to America's invasion of Iraq.

And yes, condoms are the only issue that anyone finds interesting anymore. Starting tomorrow, television and radio will be all condom channels, all the time. Big ones, small ones, glow-in-the-dark, flavored. Condoms are the new iPods.

Hopefully not sequined.  I'd imagine that would chafe.

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
No one seems to be touching on the fact that John Paul II was vocal in opposition to America's invasion of Iraq.

He wasn´t particularly loud in his vocalization.
People only choose to follow the directives that suit them individually.You think Bush would have halted the invasion just because the Pope would ask him to do so? I think not. Just as any ordinary man will not heed his word when it comes to sexual practices, political views, or even the most ordinary of opinions, if it suits him not.
It is somewhat hypocrit to hear half the planet now saying "he was a great man", and "he was the wisest of men", when so few actually did as he preeched and professed. Like saying "he was a wise man, and he is right on (much of) what he says, but i prefer to do things my way and bugger all".
Out of +200 million christians in America, how many heed his words and spoke against the war? I mean, if you take your religion seriously, shouldn´t you behave according to its teachings? Why embrace some and disregard others?

Uh, nevermind. This is getting way too philosofical...

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by vyper
Which one of us essentially called an entire race of people animals, implied condoms were ineffective against STDs and... oh **** it you're one of them there's no point.

Are you blind or just can't read?

Who the hell called people animals? I used the term "breeds" and it fits given the rate of procreation. That does not apply they are animals tough.

And again, I didn't say they are innefective, I said they aren' 100% effective, which is true. I never said forget the condoms, I said (and this is true) that the only 100% effective way to stop such deseases and other issues of over-population is abstinency.

It is clear that people in these lands need help in any from - from edutaction to housing and food. However, I find education the most important, as sending them tons of food isn't gonna solve the problem.


-----------
It official now, pope John Paul II has been called "The Great", which means the Cruch ackgnowledges him as a saint.


And let's not forget that he is only a man, he's not perfect.
Even the apostols (and the first pope and first apostole, Peter) were human. Peter denied christ three times and he STILL made him head of church.

In worst case, you might call a few of the popes decisions debatable or questionable, but not evil or wrong.

So before you judge him so quickly, maby you should look on yoursef with a microscope first. You won't like what you find.

[vyper]

[q] Peter...  he STILL made him head of church.[/q]

Should I or shouldn't I mention Magdelene here?

[q]Who the hell called people animals? I used the term "breeds" and it fits given the rate of procreation.[/q]

Actually it doesn't,. you said "breed like rabbits". Essentially implying they're no more than animals when it comes to sex.

[q] I find education the most important[/q]

And like all the suicidal missionaries who went before you, you seem to think that education should include a decidedly biased PoV purporting a solution completely against human nature. Instead of helping the people, you want to shame them into stopping - whether you realize it or not.

[q]issues of over-population is abstinency.[/q]

Is that why priests in my country encouraged their married followers to have children more and more often for many years? We're talking about days when slum living was standard.

Not to digress of course: the people you refer to have less of a problem with over-population and more of a problem with being hung out to dry by the european empires that abandoned them after changing their entire lifestyles to match our own ideas.

[q]
So before you judge him so quickly, maby you should look on yoursef with a microscope first. You won't like what you find.[/q]

I don't pretend to be anything other than (a) Mortal and (b) imperfect. However, I will not stand by and watch a man who was the voice-piece for an organisation purporting lies to the weak to be raised to the state of untouchable saint in the minds of the population.

He helped purport a lie. Just like you do. A lie that kills, injures and destroys lives.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TrashMan

In worst case, you might call a few of the popes decisions debatable or questionable, but not evil or wrong.

I'd call the decision to lie about condoms effectiveness (as a specific example) as being wrong and perhaps even evil (due to the inevitable consequences).

So IMO your 'worst case' isn't a worst case.

Incidentally, all decisions are questionable; that's how people understand them.  I don't think even religion wants their edicts to be regarded as undebatable or unquestionable; surely they'd want people to examine them and understand them (or even dissent), in order to explore their own faith?

EDIt; i.e. I disagree.  My nature is to question everything & explore the options, rather than settling on a singular edict as truth.  As such, my personality runs contrary to the 'ideal' personality for the Catholic - or any - church.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing


He wasn´t particularly loud in his vocalization.
People only choose to follow the directives that suit them individually.You think Bush would have halted the invasion just because the Pope would ask him to do so? I think not. Just as any ordinary man will not heed his word when it comes to sexual practices, political views, or even the most ordinary of opinions, if it suits him not.
It is somewhat hypocrit to hear half the planet now saying "he was a great man", and "he was the wisest of men", when so few actually did as he preeched and professed. Like saying "he was a wise man, and he is right on (much of) what he says, but i prefer to do things my way and bugger all".
Out of +200 million christians in America, how many heed his words and spoke against the war? I mean, if you take your religion seriously, shouldn´t you behave according to its teachings? Why embrace some and disregard other others?

I don't expect his voice to alter the course of political events, and I certainly don't expect all Catholics to do everything he says. I was actually speaking more in the direction of the religious conservatives who raise him up to sainthood, conveniently overlooking the fact that he was anti-war.