[Rictor]

Sooooo:

-Jose Miguel Insulza, Chilean minister of something or other and socialist is set to win the OAS (Organization of American States) presidency, against the wishes of the Unites States, probably a historical first. His Mexican rival recently withdrew.

-Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, the popular leftist major of Mexico city looks to be the favourite for the 2006 Mexican election, if he can bring an end to the trumped up charges brought against him by the current government (he built an access road to a hospital without authorization)

-There's trouble brewing in Nicaragua, where demostrations are taking place to protest the raising of gas prices, by which the poor will be hardest hit. It could concievably bring down the government and help the main opposition party, the Sandinistas, form a coalition government. Quite conspicously, several attack helicopters have arrived from the US and been stationed at Villa Nueva military base.

-The 2005 elections in Chile seem to favour Michelle Bachelet (though this is argueable), a socialist who's father was tortured and killed when Pinochet came to power.

This is in addition to the leftist, anti-neoliberal (to varying degrees) governments in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay, which have recently formed Petrosur and Telesur, a trans-national petroleum firm and media outlet, respecitvely. (sur meaning "of the South"). Oil rich Venezuela in particular has been strengthening ties with the likes of India and Russia, even as Condi Rice's South American tour has failed to convince any of the above nations to side with Washington against Chavez.

I can think of nothing else like this. Almost the entire contintent has united (minus Columbia and El Salvador) and rejected the notion that they lie within America's "sphere of influence" and are therefore to accept the century-old belligerance with resignation.

Exciting stuff.

[redmenace]

lol, looks like american companies will be shifting more business to china.

[Flipside]

hehehe As I've said before, it's getting to the point where money is not the deciding factor any more.

[aldo_14]

I think China in particular also offer more; they're probably offering an equal - maybe more - investment, but without really trying to force a foreign or domestic policy.

Chinas making a big play IIRC for strategic 'partnerships' with oil (etc) producing countries.

[Jal-18]

As a Venezuelan by birth, I find my country's current state and political climate distressingly bad...and the seeming ignorance of the rest of the world, especially one certain nation, which seems to think 523 thousand barrels of oil a day is worth more then 1,357 barrels...but maybe I'm just weird like that.

[redmenace]

Money is the deciding factor still, I think a socialist government will most likly drive up the cost of labor in those countries.

[vyper]

You mean to a fair wage?

[redmenace]

Fair wage here doens't equal a fair wage in SA. I should mention that the wages american companies pay in SA is more than most other jobs in the area that the workers can get.

[vyper]

That doesn't mean it's a decent living standard provided by that wage.

[redmenace]

if we provided a "descent living standard" according to our standard what would be the point of making use of their labor resources. However, what ever we give them enables them to attain a higher living standard than they currently have without.

[vyper]

[q]if we provided a "descent living standard" according to our standard what would be the point of making use of their labor resources[/q]

There wouldn't be any point meaning there'd be one less group of people for the rich to ****.

[redmenace]

They're ****ed one way or another.

Might as well take advantage of it while you can and help them out a little.

[Rictor]

So basically, the trickle-down theory. Those with the power plunder everything in sight: people's labour, natural resources, entire economies, and in doing so they inadvertantly contribute a few meager dollars to keep those who they have plundered fed so that they can put in another's day work.

I wonder what you would think if you were on the recieving end of such policies. Hell, minimum wage in the West is enough to piss off anyone with half a mind, and working ten times as hard for ten times as little is bound to cause enormous resentment. Ever wonder why Latin America has the longest and strongest history of socialism? Cause they have gotten the worst of US policies for like a hundred years.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Jal-18
As a Venezuelan by birth, I find my country's current state and political climate distressingly bad...and the seeming ignorance of the rest of the world, especially one certain nation, which seems to think 523 thousand barrels of oil a day is worth more then 1,357 barrels...but maybe I'm just weird like that.

How so? I'de be interested in what you think of the whole situation; Chavez, the coup and all that. From what I gather, he hasn't been advocating anything more than social democracy, much like what can be seen in Western Europe and Scandinavia, but becuase Latin America has such a long history of being lorded over, this somehow seems radical.

I look at Venezuela, and I look at someplace like the US, and I know where I would rather live. Inevitably, there's bound to be a certain degree of simple ignorance on my part, that pretty much unavoidable, but I find it hard to condemn what is one of the rare cases of the lower class bettering their lot and ending the domination of a narrow elite, while maintaining a democratic government.

[redmenace]

Better than just handing them cash, I say.

People choose to work those jobs that pay ****. Be it here or in SA. It is their choice. Like I said they are better off with little than with nothing.

[Rictor]

Yes, but better yet to reform the system where the only choice is essentialy to be an indentured wage slave or to starve. And yet when this happens, it is condemned and those who cast off their shackles are made out to be monsters. If the US wasn't ro busy taking over the Middle-East, do you doubt we would see a repeat of Nicaragua/Chile/el Salvador? They tried in 2002, and very nearly succeded.

To kill someone is wrong, to starve them is perfectly acceptable.

[redmenace]

We are not starving them by not offering them work, frankly. Also if we were not going to offer them work at all they would be in far worse condition.

However, they are completely free to revolt against the government is they choose to do so.

[Rictor]

Which is generally what is happening, except they're civil enough not to do it with guns, but by electing like-minded leaders. Frankly, if it was me, I'de be reaching for an AK-47 and civility be damned. I guess I wouldn't make a very good politician.

[Liberator]

*pulls out 10' pole*
*carefully pushes topic away*
*runs the other way*

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Rictor
So basically, the trickle-down theory. Those with the power plunder everything in sight: people's labour, natural resources, entire economies, and in doing so they inadvertantly contribute a few meager dollars to keep those who they have plundered fed so that they can put in another's day work.

I wonder what you would think if you were on the recieving end of such policies. Hell, minimum wage in the West is enough to piss off anyone with half a mind, and working ten times as hard for ten times as little is bound to cause enormous resentment. Ever wonder why Latin America has the longest and strongest history of socialism? Cause they have gotten the worst of US policies for like a hundred years.

Weren't you the one who claimed on an earlier thread that corporations should exploit the poor as much as they liked as long as the poor wanted the money and knew what they were getting themselves into?