[Jetmech Jr.]

Originally posted by Corhellion
...and this is why I seldom come here anymore...

L8er all!

*goes to Warpstorm...indefinately*

...Wah?

It's called constructive criticism. Seriously, weak, man.

[icespeed]

yup, looks like boxes, but they're boxes with _style_, man, _style_.

[Setekh]

Cool, it's a dream of many to be employed to do stuff like this. Personally, I think it'd drive me nuts being forced to do what I enjoy according to someone else's demands and upon their whims; but all power to you, I think they came out great.

[Grug]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.


...Wah?

It's called constructive criticism. Seriously, weak, man.

[Corhellion]

...Constructive criticism...That I can't work on...That's how they appear in the books.

Atleast someone here likes them...

*shrugs*

Can't please 'em all

[Jetmech Jr.]

Originally posted by Corhellion
...Constructive criticism...That I can't work on...That's how they appear in the books.

Atleast someone here likes them...

*shrugs*

Can't please 'em all

Indeed. I stand by what I said about these things last time. Look at the Borg cubes - same basic concept, seven tonnes more detail. Look at a space shuttle - relatively simple shape, real space craft, still detailed. I mean... you could have at least put some noticable metal plate textures on there.

There's no real sense of scale without it, and noi sense that these were built of metal rather than modelled in a computer. They look like plastic.

I'm sorry to say it, but, were I just wandering through a bookstore with no prior knowledge of the author (Who is, by the looks, a relative unknown coming out of a small publishing house run by his parents), the stories, or the universe, I'd have no incentive to pick up the books. And that's how you sell - getting people to pick up the book and impulse buy. Once you've got a few thousand copies under your belt, word of mouth, reviews, libraries - these are what boost your sales, not what start them off - For that you need flashy cover and fancy ships - as it stands, being brutally honest, I'd dismiss these books based on those ship designs. It might be shallow, and it might not be fair, but that's the reality of breaking into the modern market.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Corhellion
Everyone saying that they're just boxes: Ever seen a Stardestroyer/Flying Arrow? Or maybe a flying vacum cleaner? Or a flying Rifle?

Different authors/designers come up with different ways to make things work. The design for the Earther Warships work for them. Fairly well. So sod off from the slacking, you want to voice your opinion, you can email the author...it's on the website

As for the availability in the UK...I'm not sure...once again...email the author for more information.

I'm sorry, but.... these things don't exist in reality either.  All this... sci-fi, it's just the extrapolation of a wild idea.  sometimes founded, and sometimes pulled out of the air.

So I don't see any excuse for not using artistry to make something look good.  Look at the Wright brothers flyer, and compare it to a Concorde or an F-15.... how similar are they really?  People can't even predict 20 years into the future, so don't throw out the 'it's artistically dull but it's realistic' excuse.

To  me, art is about ideas; a box doesn't have any impact...any scale....any sense of purpose, of ideas, of humanity or otherwise.  It's a box; I look at that cover, and I can't imagine anything like dynamic action, or a fleet of these things in massive battle, or performing heroics, etc.  I imagine a box of tissues, same as the box sitting 2 feet away from me right now.  

So I don't like it.  

And I'm sorry if that offends you, but that's my opinion as someone who also does these things - even if only for a hobby - is that if I made that, I wouldn't consider it worth showing, and that's how I judge stuff.  You got paid to do it - well done & good job.  But don't expect it to exempt you from criticism; if anything it opens the floodgates because you're able to call yourself professional now.

Incidentally - Krogg destroyer also looks a lot like Battlefleet Gothic models IIRC.

[NGTM-1R]

Well, you know, truth is the Orion is essentially a big armored box too. But it's an interesting armored box.

I can think of several things that could be done to improve the models. These ships don't look particularly capable of atmospheric reentry: how about a launch-landing bay, a well deck, something like that? At least the hint of one, like a pair of armored doors or something. These things have got to take on supplies and personnel somehow while in deep space. If one of those big broadside guns breaks down, you've got to get parts for it inside and do the work there, because somehow I don't think they're going to drydock and tear the armor belt open just to fix one gun.

Those small craft...what happens when a few thousand swarm at you and get too close for the broadside armament to track effectively? Add some little turret thingies for that circumstance. They don't have to be big, or particularly detailed; hell, you could probably just have a bunch of little barely visible bumps on the hull and call them turrets.

I won't ask for a bridge, since a bridge is really something of a throwback. External communications equipment, however, would be good. A few antennae or something. Actually, probably a lot of antennae so it's hard to eliminate them all.

[Corhellion]

*head smashes into keyboard*

...Ok...Nightmare...Ima show you this...and this should clear up everything...



1: There are two landing bays, primary and secondary
2: Fighters are not strictly used in the first 4 book series. It's not like Freespace, most of the small ships are either shuttles or dropships...think Star Trek...more big ships than small fighters, but there will be more fighters in the later books, and we'll see how they fair in the grand scheme of things.

2 and a half: As for countering the fighters and other things...there are smaller turrets (I didn't model them cause they're too small) that act as point defence guns, they're ussually located at the corners of the "top box" and on the top and bottem.

3: there is a bridge...are you blind...

4: This isn't Freespace...there's a whole different doctrine to these ships...they don't follow normal spaceship designs cause they're alien.

And another note...There isn't any greebling because all of the "subsystems" are insulted/in the hull...to keep them from being destroyed easily.

Hope that cleared up a few things.

[WeatherOp]

Ummm, I don't want to make you mad, but it looks like a vault a coffin goes in. And it needs turrets you can see very, very, very bad to make it look nearly good.

[Corhellion]

*points to the Gun Hatches On the sides, front and back of the ships*

Think of old Sailing ships with broadsides...k?

[phreak]

its pretty good if you're going for a 50s sci-fi look.

[kv1at3485]

Make the hull rougher.  You know: micrometeor impacts, previous battle damage, that sort of thing.  Right now it looks a bit too pristine.

I take those little yellow rectangles on the dorsal 'steps' are windows?  They could use a bit of work.  Not quite sure what, but even on the book cover they look... depthless and especially non-luminescent.

[mikhael]

The funny thing is that they match up pretty well with one of the two best designed military starships I've ever read. The Neutronium Alchemist books (Nights Dawn?) had giant spherical ships, and the Honor Harrington had ships more like Corhellion's design here. I think he did a damned good job. Certainly, more detail would be nice, but they don't need to be greebled to hell and back.

[NGTM-1R]

*cough*

None of that detail was visible in the other renders. (In fact, the texturing was different too...or completely washed out.) I'm trying to work with you here, okay?

I wasn't referring to the fighters...in fact I figured this series didn't have fighters until you said otherwise. I meant the Gunboat in the pictures from the books you posted recently.

One of the reasons subsystems are generally vunerable is that they don't work so well behind a meter of armorplate...but I digress.

[Shrike]

Originally posted by mikhael
best designed military starships I've ever read.
Honor Harrington  

*starts coughing uncontrollably*

Honorverse ships are silly with sillytech.  Nothing that's Napoleonic warfare in space is remotely realistic.

Anyhow, it looks like the author said 'I like honorverse ships' and then thought of a way to copy them without copying them.

Given the source materiel they look ok, but the source materiel isn't providing a terribly interesting design.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Shrike
*starts coughing uncontrollably*

Honorverse ships are silly with sillytech.  Nothing that's Napoleonic warfare in space is remotely realistic.

Tonnes of universes are full of sillytech. At least Honorverse dumped the ships engaging at pointblank range when capable of FTL travel aspect that you see in so much sci-fi.

Still think Larry Niven's Protector is much closer to a real battle in space. Fire at your enemy. Wait three weeks to find out if you hit them or not

[icespeed]

sheesh, leave the guy alone. obviously someone liked them enough to buy them from him. constructive criticism is where you say, yes, that's good, but this could be better. it's not where you say, that sucks, and that sucks worse, and everything could be better. which is what i've been reading from you lot. so lay off him. you've all made your point.

[Jetmech Jr.]

I haven't been doing any ragging on him. A few posts (like hte one I quoted) ARE constructive criticism. Is it my fault some of hte others mix in "sucks" and such into the comments?

In any case, I think Cor's doing a very good job, but yes, the ships are rather dull to look at.

The covers are rather unexciting. What would be really neat, is if he had some ships actually FIGHTING. This could offset the dullness of the designs (not like thats Cor's fault either. IIRC, he was working of someone elses instructions). Cor made mention of that Krogg Battleship getting "Gorey." How bout that

The Textures onf the ship could use slight reworking, to make them look more like battle-worn armor, less like factory-fresh plastic .

[Shrike]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
In any case, I think Cor's doing a very good job, but yes, the ships are rather dull to look at.

The covers are rather unexciting.

That's really the crux of the matter.  The ships are fairly simplistic which means they really don't look terribly good in visual terms.  It's not that the models are bad, it's that the ship design doesn't have much in the way of aesthetics.

Now, I do have a few questions.  What sort of technology do they use?  Is there an abbreviated (or not) tech bible available?  I'm curious why they have such a broadside styling when, as we know, space is a 3D environment.  Even if they go into battle to deliver broadsides, wouldn't dorsal and ventral turrets be a good addition?  Or even casemates?  And what do the, er, biotech dudes use for tech and weapons?  Why do their ships look so different?

Maybe you can talk to the author and try to get him to add in some more visually distinctive designs.  Turrets always look sexy.