[Andreas]

I am dissapointed with the results of this election. Not because the majority voted 'no', but because they basically voted against the government, not against the constitution. If they would have voted against it because they read it and didn't agree with it, that would have been anoether matter.

I find it worrying if people won't bother reading it. I have it, and while it does span 340 pages, it has a lot of empty space in between (what a waste of paper...) and the various parts are clearly labeled, so it isn't hard to read at all.

But, if the "common" people won't even bother to find out what the constitution is really about, then they shouldn't be allowed to take part in the decision-making process at all, correct?

[vyper]

Incorrect. The people have a right to decide their own fate, even if some of them are not entirely aware of what that fate is. That is the price of democracy. We have the right to choose.

[Ghostavo]

I'd vote yes if I had that ability...

[Andreas]

Originally posted by vyper
Incorrect. The people have a right to decide their own fate, even if some of them are not entirely aware of what that fate is. That is the price of democracy. We have the right to choose.

I was merely being sarcastic.
I myself don't believe into any political system, and I generally consider humans to be stupid, arrogant animals, something which no political system, let alone democracy can help.

[vyper]

Forgive me but most european politicians (UK government esp.) would agree with your sarcasm in deadly seriousness.

[vyper]

WHAT THE HELL?

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=20248&name=VVD+abandons+advertwith+Holocaust+images

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005240146,00.html

(apologies for having to use The Sun, but this isn't on the main newswires yet)

[Andreas]

Originally posted by vyper
Forgive me but most european politicians (UK government esp.) would agree with your sarcasm in deadly seriousness.

Should I try for politics then?

[Grug]

It's the French, what else would you expect? o.O

[Skippy]

Originally posted by vyper
WHAT THE HELL?

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=20248&name=VVD+abandons+advertwith+Holocaust+images

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005240146,00.html

(apologies for having to use The Sun, but this isn't on the main newswires yet)

[Flipside]

It's like the Cancer ads with the Eva Cassidy track on it, you see, in my opinion, that is generating Terror/Fear to achieve your goals (money for Cancer research is a good thing, but do the ends justify the means?) which is Terrorism.

I'd like to point out for the record that 1 in 3 people in the UK do NOT get cancer at some point in their lives, the actual survey was that 1 in 3 people who tested for Cancer were positive. That really pisses me off when I read it on those ads.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by vyper
The ruling elite in the EU are now bordering on the autocratic.

nonsense. anyone trying to compare the EU with something resembling a dictatorship/USSR is a scaremongering populist.

[SadisticSid]

Code: [Select]


function EU() {
    while(true) {
        producePaperwork();
        if (rand(0, 1) < 0.000000000000000000001)
            doSomethingUseful();
        else
            increaseRegulation();
    }
}


[vyper]

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80


nonsense. anyone trying to compare the EU with something resembling a dictatorship/USSR is a scaremongering populist.

And anyone who needs a historical comparison like Russia to understand the nature of an autocracy isn't viewing a bigger picture. Europe is being run by men who have no notion of democracy.

[Unknown Target]

Now you know how we feel

But my question still hasn't been answered: what exactly is this constitution proposing? And why does no one seem to like it?

[Ghostavo]

Probably the fact that Germany is going to get a huge leap in voting matters if this constitution does pass, because of it's huge demographics.

[Swamp_Thing]

Mmmm, the dutch said NO aswell... This doesn´t bode well for the EU.

[Flipside]

It certainly doesn't bode well for the Constitution, but the simple fact is that if they run a Democracy, then they will have to expect to get rebutted by the majority at times. What concerns me more is how many countries will pump out some weak excuse about the public being 'too poorly informed' to make the decision and go ahead anyway, because of the personal gains for the people involved.
That is what concerns me about a lot fo Western governments, they talk Democracy, but Democracy ends at the polling station for them, the 4 years after are becoming nothing to do with Democracy and elections are becoming a 'Choose your Dictator' competition.

[Rictor]

Hmm, another defeat. It won't stop the EU, only slow it down a step and postpone the inevitable...but still. Vyper should be pleased.

[vyper]

vyper approves of this result

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Ghostavo
Probably the fact that Germany is going to get a huge leap in voting matters if this constitution does pass, because of it's huge demographics.

Hasn't Germany already accepted the Consitution? And with France+Holland rejecting it, as well as, needless to say, the UK when the time comes, they're really going to be taking centre stage.

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80


nonsense. anyone trying to compare the EU with something resembling a dictatorship/USSR is a scaremongering populist.

I'm not so sure. There is a very real and frightening downside to the social democratic system embodied by the EU. While not really fascistic in nature, it is very definitely state interventionist, and I think the possibility of a hugely powerful nanny state is quite dramatic..