[Boomer]

GTW - 7 BANSHEE An electromagnetic weapon; sends rapid pulses of exceptionally strong electromagnetic energy resulting in a 1.63 x 105 J blast that forces its way through any known shield technology and produces a dramatic shearing effect which quickly destroys the target ship’s materials; named for the fact that in an atmosphere, the pulse creates an atmospheric disturbance similar to a quasi-human scream at 180 dB; uses up a tremendous amount of available ship energy; already, it is has been used by many GTA fighter aces and test pilots as a coup de grace, although such a use for this massively powerful offensive weapon is officially viewed as poor sportsmanship by the GTA.

See, like I said, Not a Laser.  No "light" involved, just energy.

[kv1at3485]

'light' is made up of photons, which are packets of EM radiation.

[Roanoke]

I do prefer the later weapons where you can be all patient like and nail someone with a few well placed rounds.

[Mad Bomber]

The Prometheus S is NOT -- i repeat, NOT[/u] the same as the original 2335 Prometheus. There's a 600 meter range difference (900 vs 1500), as well as sound, energy usage, damage, and fire rate.

My guess as to why the Banshee was scrapped: It wasn't compatible enough. Only the Herc, Valk, and Loki could mount it. That and it was probably too expensive; after Sol was gone, the GTA probably had a fraction of the industrial base (and tax base)to call upon. And the Breaker* was likely cheaper anyhow.

Why use the Prom-R versus the Subach? Because the Subach wasn't developed for mass production until some (unspecified) time after the Great War. They knew how to make it, more or less; they just didn't have the tricks to make it less expensive to produce, until the industrial base recovered.

As for Prom-R versus Prom-O (original), well, they ran out of argon. Probably bought back all those ML-16s to recycle their argon power units, but that can only have lasted em so long. Also the Prom-R's longer range** helps it versus the original.

Now here's the question I was thinking: Why use the Prom-R versus the Avenger, the main weapon at the time the Prom-R was developed? Basically, because it packs a bigger wallop per shot, and does slightly more** shield damage over time.

Heeyarr.


*"Shield Breaker" is too long a name. So I just call it the Breaker for short.

**I am of the opinion that [V] goofed the Prom-R's TBLs (on purpose or otherwise) and that the gun should be significantly less crappy than it is. Hence the "slightly more" and "longer range" comments.

[FireCrack]

It wouldve taken less time to type Sheild Breaker once than to write that whole footnote.

[Boomer]

'light' is made up of photons, which are packets of EM radiation.

Damn, I knew a physics stickler would put that in.  Fine, here's the disclaimer.

I realize that all wavelengths of the EM spectrum can be considered light, however, a laser consists of a highly coherent beam (or short burst) of photons with a consistent wavelength and frequency, the Banshee however uses an electro-magnetic pulse, which doesn't maintain a constant wavelength or frequency.

i.e. Laser=lots of the same.
Banshee=lots of everything.

Edited.  So there.

[kv1at3485]

Where does it say the Banshee fires a fluctuating EM pulse?  (Sorry, I don't have FS1 loaded on my computer, so I can't refer to the briefings.)  The closest thing to that I can find is in FS2's Circe anti-shield weapon.

In any case, even if the Banshee does fire in that fluctuating manner, essentially what this means is a coherent laser is fired for a short period of time before the weapon switches to another frequency and fire 'again'.  Still a laser.  At least, that would be my interpretation.

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by kv1at3485
Where does it say the Banshee fires a fluctuating EM pulse?  (Sorry, I don't have FS1 loaded on my computer, so I can't refer to the briefings.)  The closest thing to that I can find is in FS2's Circe anti-shield weapon.

Here's the FS1 tech entry:

An electromagnetic weapon - sends rapid pulses of exceptionally strong electromagnetic energy resulting in a 1.63 x 105 J blast that forces its way through any known shield technology and produces a dramatic shearing effect which quickly destroys the target ship's materials - named for the fact that in an atmosphere, the pulse creates an atmospheric disturbance similar to a quasi-human scream at 180 dB - uses up a tremendous amount of available ship energy - already, it is has been used by many GTA fighter aces and test pilots as a coup de grace, although such a use for this massively powerful offensive weapon is officially viewed as poor sportsmanship by the GTA.

The GTW-7's impressive anti-shielding capabilities make it the weapon of choice against the Shivans.  The main limitation of this weapon is low weapons compatibility.  It can only be fitted on a GTF Valkyrie or a GTF Hercules.

[kv1at3485]

Indeed.  Then unless I'm going blind, there is no mention of the weapon ramping its discharge up and down the EM spectrum, only that it fires rapid pulses of EM energy which (to me) would imply that it fires on a discreet frequency.

[Boomer]

All right, now they're just trying to hard.....

All I'm saying is that a Laser in the conventional sense use distinguishable wavelengths of VISIBLE light (with few exceptions)
that is focused through the use of a focusing lens and\or crystal and\or transparent ceramic optic, whatever.

What the Banshee does, however, involves no focusing whatsoever.  While it uses photons (I will conceed that point) it is not the photons themself that do the damage.  It is the polarized magnetic field surrounding them that disrupts and punches through the shields.  When they say that it fires a 1.63 x 105 J blast of electromagnetic energy, they don't mean EM radiation, they mean the energy associated with an electro-magnetic field.  
The photons act only as a medium to carry the devastating electro-magnetic fields that shields seem to hate so much.

Think about it!  If a shield can stop a laser blast, why should it not be effective against the Banshee?  It's because the Banshee's destructive power is based on the inherent magnetic field associated with photons.  By firing a **** load of different photons, each with a unique electro-magnetic signature affixed to it, it would render a devastating anti-shield blast.  That's why it takes so much energy:  instead of making a whole lot of the same, it has to make a whole lot of everything.

On a final note, sorry about the fluctuating EM thingy, wrong weapon.  That's the Circe.  

*Material referencing done via Wikipedia.  The online encyclopedia made by the people who use it, for the people who don't.*
Please excuse my shameless pimping.:thepimp:

[FireCrack]

I belive that should be 1.63*10^5 and the exponentiation was lost in a copy-paste somewhere.

[kv1at3485]

I figure the Banshee did what it did because its discharge was simply more powerful than its contemporaries.  i.e. It's a brute force weapon.

Shields at that time simply were not powerful enough to stop such an obscene amount of energy delivered in a single 'concentrated' shot (absorption threshold leading to leakage?), let alone multiple shots within a short period.

That would also partially explain why production of the weapon was discontinued while the Prometheus lived on.  Not only was it horrendously expensive, but over time its brute force method was mitigated by improved shields (too much power now required to achieve the same effect.)

[Boomer]

I figure the Banshee did what it did because its discharge was simply more powerful than its contemporaries. i.e. It's a brute force weapon.

But......

Ahh.....

Hmmm....

Well....

****, Occam's Razor bites me in the ass again.

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

Now here's the question I was thinking: Why use the Prom-R versus the Avenger, the main weapon at the time the Prom-R was developed? Basically, because it packs a bigger wallop per shot, and does slightly more** shield damage over time.

Not to mention the Avenger was a shell-firing ballistic cannon, and as such used up ammunition, which means it would have been considerably costlier to use.

Originally posted by kv1at3485
I figure the Banshee did what it did because its discharge was simply more powerful than its contemporaries.  i.e. It's a brute force weapon.

By the very nature of its description, however, the Banshee would seem to be a directed EM pulse across multiple frequencies, not a mere brute-force laser. Note that all other lasers (ML-16, Prom-O, Flail, and both versions of the Disruptor) are described as lasers. (Also worth noting the Subach is described as a xaser.)

The Banshee, then, would probably fire EM pulses that are spread across multiple frequencies, but do not fluctuate. They are composed of multiple frequencies generated simultanously, focused and directed simultanously, and arriving simultanously. Some small fluctuating effect might have been obtained by the two barrels of the weaponing firing different combinations of frequencies.

The more effective S-Breaker had an even greater number of barrels (somewhere between six and eight; don't have the tech ani handy). Basing off this, it would seem the GTA wasn't able to generate a fluctuating EM pulse using a single-barrel weapon and had to use multiple barrels to obtain the same effect.

[phatosealpha]

Well, the Banshee honestly probably had a very very short lifespan.  It came into limited production towards the end of the great war, and we're talking the very tail end.  And it was essentially an anti-shield weapon with a bit of hull damage, horribly energy inefficient and generally specialized entirely for taking on ships with powerful shields and weak hulls, ie, the shivans.  After the lucifer was destroyed, and the shivans disappeared, there was no reason to expand the banshee manufacturing capabilities - the only reason it exist had vanished.  Against shivans it was a useful weapon.  Againts terran and vasudan space pirates....well, it's not cost or energy efficient.

The Prom-R is harder for me to explain, primairly cause of order of events.  If they were developed post great war and then replaced by the subach, I could understand it.  However, that's just not the way it's shown in FS2.  Prom-R comes after the subach, and it seems quite unlikely to me they'd give subaches to new recruits if they were only in limited production - and they sure wouldn't make you wait until you're flying a heavy assault fighter to get the PoS-R.  And the tech database claims the subach sidearm is the standard weapon from the beginning of FS2.  There are certainly no shortage of them laying around.

*shrug* the only real possible explanations I can come up with for the Prom-R are:

A:)  Someone said to command "This civil war has been going on for quite some time, could drag on longer, or worse, could degenerate into a second round of the Terran-Vasudan war.  We've got all this old Prometheus manufacturing equipment around, and we've figured out how to make a working, if not wonderful, weapon with it.  Better to be prepared just in case, neh?"

B:) Someone said to command "Hey, I want to sell you a bunch of lasers.  Come visit me on my space yacht, prostitutes and liquor on me, including some ultra-rare real earth vintages."

[FireCrack]

Or [v] fudged the tables, that's the one i'm personaly sticking with.

[Mefustae]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

Now here's the question I was thinking: Why use the Prom-R versus the Avenger, the main weapon at the time the Prom-R was developed? Basically, because it packs a bigger wallop per shot, and does slightly more** shield damage over time.

You never know, the Prom R might have been chosen for completely different reasons. As the tech entry clearly states, the GTW-15 Avenger is a projectile weapon, based upon some big honking 45mm rounds, while this is may appear an outwardly better weapon, the industrial base for both the Vasudan & Terran civilisations took a mighty blow from the loss of Sol & VP, and the subsequent fracturing politically of the entire sector would have only compounded this damage. The Avenger may have been in use for a little while after the end of the Great War, but really, why devote a sizable portion of weapons production to Ammunition for the Avenger (that's not even bringing the logistics of moving the 'Rounds around) when you've got perfectly fine Energy Weapons that require no Ammunition at all (going on the assumption that they found an alternative gas to Argon, and thus would be considerably easier to Transport - evidenced by the presence of...that...gas freighter...the name escapes me)...and that's my two cents, well, around 7 cents really...where's my change dammit...!

[JoeLo]

Why use the Prom R over the avenger? At one point in FS1 they called Promethus the next generation Avenger, I inferred Argon from that.

[Trivial Psychic]

Prometheus is beter than the Avenger, yes, but the Prom-R isn't.

Avenger:
$Mass:            0.4
$Velocity:         525.0
$Fire Wait:         0.25
$Damage:         16
$Armor Factor:         1.25
$Shield Factor:         0.85
$Subsystem Factor:   0.35
$Lifetime:         1.9
$Energy Consumed:   0.30

Prom-R
$Mass:            0.2
$Velocity:         450.0
$Fire Wait:         0.45
$Damage:         18
$Armor Factor:         1.1
$Shield Factor:         0.8
$Subsystem Factor:   0.35
$Lifetime:         2.0
$Energy Consumed:   0.60

The faster projectile speed of the Avenger makes up for the geater lifetime of the Prom-R.  The slightly greater armor and shield factors combined with the greater fire rate of the Avenger compensate for the Prom-R's greater overall dammage figure.  On top of that, the Avenger has a lower energy drain factor and a higher projectile mass.  Give me an Avenger over a Prom-R any day.

I'd quote the figures for the Prom-O, but I don't have them at hand.  All I've got is those of the Prom-S, which has already been established as being different from the original as far as the tables are concerned.

[aldo_14]

Avenger isn't in FS2 though, is it?  So odds are that all FS1 weapons tbl data has to be taken with a pinch of salt when being compared to the stats of a weapon intended to be - and be balanced for - 30 years in the future.