[Solatar]

Originally posted by Mefustae


Sorry if i offended you there, but not only was i talking only of the US Government in my newly-dubbed-insane rant ( ), but i was talking about a specific breed of US Government, as in Cold War style; and conspiracy or not, i think we can all agree that those guys weren't exactly saints. See: Kissinger...

Well of course they weren't...no government really is.

[EtherShock]

I'm really amazed by the stupidity displayed here. I have a problem with people taking things at face value, especially those that are broadcast on television. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the location of the believers and non-believers in this sample, whether more Americans believe we did land on the moon and whether more Europeans believe we didn't.

Now then...

Originally posted by Unknown Target
Further down the road: the space shuttle. Ok, it's outdated, overfunded, and mismanaged - but the Shuttle itself is quite simply the best thing we have right now (as for your comment, Kosh on how pathetic our species is...it's not like we have a lot to compare it to ). Anyway, the shuttle, while aging, is still a viable option in my opinion. Now, whether or not NASA is capable of turning the shuttle into something that's more modern is up to debate.
Fact is, the shuttle has launched several hundred missions with only two major mishaps (the conclusion of this particular accident one still being unknown). Now, if NASA could dump half of it's budget-sucking duties, or shift them over to another department, and free some of it's billion-dollar budget, it could probably rennovate all of the shuttle's internal systems.
I bet you that if NASA were to completely replace all the shuttle's (just one, not all) computer systems with modern ones, it would probably come out to only about ten million dollars.
So why haven't they done it yet? Well, it's because of cost, fear, and mismanagmenet. NASA is bloated, and isn't able to move in any direction fast enough to do anything - for instance, by the time they finished space-proofing and testing all of the shuttle's new systems, they'd probably already be outdated. Fear because NASA is afraid of so much change all at once, and doesn't want to risk anything. And cost because, well, because it's government and it would take 20 billion dollars more to do than it should.

I agree.

[Ace]

Funny, because I haven't heard of too many Europeans who claimed that the US never landed... while a whole lot of Americans say and believe that.

[aldo_14]

I've never met anyone who thought the moon landings were faked.

[Mefustae]

You have now

[Unknown Target]

I'd say you and maybe EtherShock up there are the only ones that I've ever personally heard say that the landings were fake

[EtherShock]

I don't think they're fake. I was talking about the people that think it is, especially if any of them watched that stupid Fox special.

[Mefustae]

Hooray! I'm somewhat unique!

[aldo_14]

NB: One thing - if the Moon landings were faked, wouldn't the USSR have screamed bloody murder about it?  I mean, they had the capability to detect scientific errors in any faked feed, and probably an ability to monitor the actual Apollo mission.

[karajorma]

Nope. You see Russia was in on it too. They helped the US fake it.

Believe it or not that's the explaination I heard from one of the hoaxers.

[aldo_14]

Ah.... thinking about it, it makes perfect sense.  

Our moon overlords would have to subjugate the Soviets - after all, if they didn't then Stalin could have sent tanks to the moon to steal all their cheese.  Obviously they used time travel to send a moon rock to crash into Tunguska, as an early warning for 50 years in the future.  Oh, and shot Kennedy, because he knew too much.

[Ghost]

Originally posted by vyper
They're over 20 years old - we need a new design.

I'd either push for this or build new shuttles with modern technology stuck in them. Seriously, the ones we have now really are too old...

[pyro-manic]

I've said it previously, but the shuttle fleet had a complete overhaul a few years ago. Everything was replaced or upgraded systems-wise, so they're as good as they can be. They're just a bad design by modern standards.

[Ghost]

Originally posted by pyro-manic
I've said it previously, but the shuttle fleet had a complete overhaul a few years ago. Everything was replaced or upgraded systems-wise, so they're as good as they can be. They're just a bad design by modern standards.

Ah, but the ships themselves are old.

[Unknown Target]

The shuttles were upgraded, but in reality if you took about three home computers and networked them, they'd probably still have more processing power than the shuttle - so they're not quite there yet.

Besides, what's wrong wit the shuttle design? Fragile heat tiles, that big ass booster tank, and a gliding descent.

The heat tiles can be redeveloped, the booster tank could be done away with with better booster rockets. The glider profile can't be fixed, though, because it's integral to the overall design.

[pyro-manic]

True, but they'll be in excellent physical condition. Any spacecraft will be built and maintained very well indeed - they stripped them down entirely (right back to the bare air(space?)frame) for the refit. Building more to the same design wouldn't really be worth it - it'd be better to design new ones.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
The shuttles were upgraded, but in reality if you took about three home computers and networked them, they'd probably still have more processing power than the shuttle - so they're not quite there yet.

Besides, what's wrong wit the shuttle design? Fragile heat tiles, that big ass booster tank, and a gliding descent.

The heat tiles can be redeveloped, the booster tank could be done away with with better booster rockets. The glider profile can't be fixed, though, because it's integral to the overall design.

I'm pretty sure that modern computer tech isn't manufactured to withstand the same stress levels / power usage / heat level as the stuff used 20 years ago, though.

It is questionable how much processing power you'd actually need, though. 3 networked home PCs with custom written low level / medium level code might be sufficient for the shuttle or indeed general space travel.

[Shrike]

Originally posted by Ghost
I'd either push for this or build new shuttles with modern technology stuck in them. Seriously, the ones we have now really are too old...

Unfortunately materiels science hasn't quite caught up with aerospace advances.  Look at the Venture Star project - ambitious and a new paradigm, but simply not yet workable.

[Kosh]

Unfortunately materiels science hasn't quite caught up with aerospace advances. Look at the Venture Star project - ambitious and a new paradigm, but simply not yet workable.

Never heard of it.

Building more to the same design wouldn't really be worth it - it'd be better to design new ones.

You're right. But even if they were to build more of same design, that wouldn't happen for many years. The new design won't come into service for many years too. So except for the Russians, the Chinese, and maybe the europeans, we're going to be stuck on the ground for a while.

[EtherShock]

Well, it's NASA's own fault for not making a new shuttle their highest priority.