Author Topic: The Countdown  (Read 10480 times)

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Offline CP5670

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The annoying thing about widescreen resolutions is finding ways to run games on it without it being stretched out of proportion. I found this site to be quite usefull in this matter: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/


You can sometimes mess with the configuration files to get custom resolutions in games that don't normally support them. The HUD might be messed up though; Deus Ex works fine in 2048x1536 but uses the huge, pixellated 320x240 HUD graphics. I actually prefer to have it like that though, as opposed to most other older games that leave everything at the same size and cause the HUD text to become tiny. The best thing is when a game rescales the HUD bits, like FS2 open.

With widescreen resolutions, I guess an FOV control is also necessary to make things look right, which is not always so easy to find. The 2405 is better in that respect than the 2005 though, since even if the game can't use widescreen correctly, it can still run at a respectable 1600x1200 without scaling, just with black bars on the sides.

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Of course nothing beats an Apple 30 inch Cinema Display or connecting a compatible video card to a 60 inch LCD rare projection DLP HDTV.


The best thing would be to use a projector. In fact, just two days ago, I was practicing a presentation I will be giving in one of the lecture rooms where I work and had the room to myself, so when I was done running through my slides I fired up the original C&C for a minute, one of the few games on my laptop, and played it on something like a 20' by 16' screen. :D

Also, Sandwich, your desk is seriously cluttered, especially in the newer picture. Mine is larger but has practically nothing on it except for the computer. :p
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 12:22:08 am by 296 »

 
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Originally posted by mikhael
Pr0n is better big.


Yeah, well other than pr0n. We all know it can be used for that. ^_^ I suppose it's really good for watching movies on and graphics. I wonder how tiny the text is at that resolution.

 

Offline Corsair

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Offline Nuclear1

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grognards?


I'm actually more concerned with the fact that the forum description is "DESTROY ALL HUMANS!" :blah:
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Offline Sandwich

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Originally posted by CP5670
I can actually still see a bit of ghosting on 8ms panels in fast paced games, stuff like UT2004. They work well with slower games. One problem though is that every 8ms LCD I have seen uses a 6-bit TN panel and these look significantly worse than the 8-bit ones, especially with dark gradients. The manufacturers also tend to cheat and make up their own definitions so that they can quote smaller response times.

Anyway, I was actually referring to the refresh rate there. The Dells are only capable of 60hz/fps, which is a little low for some types of games, while there are some others out there that support a much better 75hz. I think some of the Samsung LCDs can do 75 at their native resolutions.


Here's the specs of the panel used in the 2405 - they state an 8ms refresh rate. :D

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Originally posted by Omniscaper
Sandwich, does that model have the slight light bleed issue my 20" wide  Dell 2005fpw has? I have a very slight bleed on all four corners which doesn't bug me at all since i rarely have all black imagery on screen.


If you want to read through this thread from HardOCP, you'll see that all of the issues with the 2005FPW were fixed in the 2405, primarily due to using a Samsung panel instead of an LG (IIRC). No backlight bleeding, 1 stuck pixel reported out of 20+ people who bought the 2405 (one pixel, not one person with stuck pixels, mind you), etc.

Quote
Originally posted by Omniscaper
The annoying thing about widescreen resolutions is finding ways to run games on it without it being stretched out of proportion. I found this site to be quite usefull in this matter: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/


Yes, I've seen that forum referred to many, many times. I've never actually goten around to clicking through and looking around though, primarily because I haven't had a widescreen until yesterday morning, and secondarily, the only game I tried was FarCry, which natively supports my monitor's native resolution. :)

As for the stretching, either play at the native resolution (hah!), or set the monitor to scale the image up while preserving the aspect ratio.

Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Also, Sandwich, your desk is seriously cluttered, especially in the newer picture. Mine is larger but has practically nothing on it except for the computer. :p


Yes, I know. My new monitor will be the incentive I need to get around to cleaning up my desk... once I get the time to. :-/

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Originally posted by EtherShock
I wonder how tiny the text is at that resolution.


It may have an enormously high resolution, but since it's also 24" diagonal, what is on screen is actually the size of what things were on my old 17" CRT monitor running at 1280x960.
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline CP5670

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Here's the specs of the panel used in the 2405 - they state an 8ms refresh rate. :D


Dell themselves says it is 12ms though:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4221&category_id=4058&brandid=56

As I said, there is no standard definition of response time, so every company makes up their own. Samsung is especially notorious for twisting definitions to show better monitor specs (they do the same thing with dot pitches on shadow mask CRTs), so I'd be more inclinded to trust the Dell rating. This situation is kind of pathetic. :p

 

Offline Sandwich

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Originally posted by CP5670


Dell themselves says it is 12ms though:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4221&category_id=4058&brandid=56

As I said, there is no standard definition of response time, so every company makes up their own. Samsung is especially notorious for twisting definitions to show better monitor specs (they do the same thing with dot pitches on shadow mask CRTs), so I'd be more inclinded to trust the Dell rating. This situation is kind of pathetic. :p


You're right, it all depends on how you test. According to THG:

[q]The latency of this panel has been specified sometimes as 25 ms, sometimes 8 ms G2G (grey to grey), so it's difficult to know what to believe. So we measured the panel's latency to get to the heart of the matter. It is, as you'd expect, a great performer.

The profile at least is odd. Our tests showed that the product uses a base overdrive solution to achieve the latency figures that we can see here. Now overdrive isn't a miraculous solution as you can see, with latency reaching 23 ms in the worst case. It's better than most of the TN+ screens on the market, but it's still noticeably on the slow side compared to the ViewSonic VP191b.[/q]

However, THG uses a vastly different method at testing LCD response time, resulting in measurements that cannot be compared to manufacturer's stated times. Their "ultimate LCD" in that regard (at least, the one they compare all others to) gets 12-15ms - hardly what the manufacturer's rating of 8ms would lead you to think.

HOWever, THG is hardly reliable anymore in these things: they state further down:

[q]Video noise while watching DVDs is strongly evident. This is a shame, because the format of the screen would be perfect for this application. Forget it, though - there is definitely too much video noise and, in addition, viewing angles aren't suitable.[/q]

The "video noise" he complains about is only apparent because the 2405 is so dang bright! ;) I can lower the brightness to literally zero, out of 100, bring a friend into the room - during the daytime, too - and they'll comment on how bright the monitor is. At the factory default of 50 it's waaay too bright (unless you want to use it in direct sunlight, perhaps), and 100 made my room last night look like it was lit up by a regular 1.5 meter flourescent bulb. :D

But what got me was his outright insane comment on the viewing angles not being "suitable". There's a slight change in brightness depending on whether you're sitting in front of the monitor or viewing on the side (it's a wee bit less blindingly bright from the side), but the colors remain the same - no nasty LCD color inversions or solarizations or whatever it's called. We watched a movie last night, 4 of us, with me way over on the side on my bed, probably about 60 degrees off-center, and I had absolutely NO problems at all. Additionally, I looked from as close to 90 degrees as possible (the bezel prevents viewing from a true 90 degrees off-center), and up to about 87-88 there's no color shifting worth speaking of - certainly not as much as the darkening you get when viewing "flat" CRT monitors from about 50 degrees and beyond.
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Charismatic

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Too much tecnhical crap. A computer is a computer. Same goes for the ugly long computer he got..
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Offline CP5670

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The "video noise" he complains about is only apparent because the 2405 is so dang bright! ;) I can lower the brightness to literally zero, out of 100, bring a friend into the room - during the daytime, too - and they'll comment on how bright the monitor is. At the factory default of 50 it's waaay too bright (unless you want to use it in direct sunlight, perhaps), and 100 made my room last night look like it was lit up by a regular 1.5 meter flourescent bulb. :D

But what got me was his outright insane comment on the viewing angles not being "suitable". There's a slight change in brightness depending on whether you're sitting in front of the monitor or viewing on the side (it's a wee bit less blindingly bright from the side), but the colors remain the same - no nasty LCD color inversions or solarizations or whatever it's called. We watched a movie last night, 4 of us, with me way over on the side on my bed, probably about 60 degrees off-center, and I had absolutely NO problems at all. Additionally, I looked from as close to 90 degrees as possible (the bezel prevents viewing from a true 90 degrees off-center), and up to about 87-88 there's no color shifting worth speaking of - certainly not as much as the darkening you get when viewing "flat" CRT monitors from about 50 degrees and beyond.


Yeah, there have been quite a few complaints about THG's 2405 review. I believe the 2405 has an MVA panel, which is much better than the TN panels in most 8ms LCDs in terms of viewing angles and just about everything else except for response times. I didn't notice any viewing angle problem on the director's monitor at work, although the colors weren't great in the first place.

As for the viewing angles on CRTs, that only happens on shadow mask monitors, which are crap IMO compared to the aperture grill ones. The image on mine doesn't distort or discolor at all even if I look at it directly from the side.

My laptop LCD has a horrible viewing angle though. It's so bad that you can't get uniform colors across the screen no matter where you look at it from, since about half of the screen is always outside the viewing angle. :p

 

Offline mikhael

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I hear you about the brightness, Sandwich. Mine's got a mode to cut the brightness in half, regardless of the brightness setting (so it even cuts it in half when the brightness is set to 0, which is what I have to do). Good thing too: it makes my eyes water any other way.
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Offline Sandwich

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Originally posted by Charismatic
Too much tecnhical crap. A computer is a computer. Same goes for the ugly long computer he got..


It's a screen. Also known as a monitor. Get it right!!!!!1111oneone

Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Yeah, there have been quite a few complaints about THG's 2405 review. I believe the 2405 has an MVA panel, which is much better than the TN panels in most 8ms LCDs in terms of viewing angles and just about everything else except for response times. I didn't notice any viewing angle problem on the director's monitor at work, although the colors weren't great in the first place.


This director has a 2405?

Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
As for the viewing angles on CRTs, that only happens on shadow mask monitors, which are crap IMO compared to the aperture grill ones. The image on mine doesn't distort or discolor at all even if I look at it directly from the side.


Oh, well, if you say so. All I know is that my brother's AOC 19" is pretty annoying fom the sides.

Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
My laptop LCD has a horrible viewing angle though. It's so bad that you can't get uniform colors across the screen no matter where you look at it from, since about half of the screen is always outside the viewing angle. :p


Move your head farther away. :p

Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
I hear you about the brightness, Sandwich. Mine's got a mode to cut the brightness in half, regardless of the brightness setting (so it even cuts it in half when the brightness is set to 0, which is what I have to do). Good thing too: it makes my eyes water any other way.


That's an interesting feature; useful for the end user, obviously, but I wonder what made the engineers put in such a feature in the first place.
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline CP5670

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This director has a 2405?


yeah, as I said, they upgraded all the monitors back in June. I guess he had enough clout to get a 2405 ordered for himself. :D I and the other two summer internship students in the division use his machine when we need to download stuff onto flash drives, since we are all on Sun Ultrasparc boxes that are so old that they don't have USB ports. :p

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Move your head farther away.


That doesn't help much unless I walk several feet away. It also makes the already tiny text unreadable, since the native resolution is 1400x1050 and it's a 14.1" screen. It's just a POS panel.

 
I think your resolution is just too big for such a small screen. What kind of laptop you got?

 

Offline CP5670

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A Dell Latitude D600 that's about 17 months old. It sucks, but I got it for free at a competition. The only reason I keep it at 1400x1050 is that it looks even worse when scaled down to a non-native resolution.

All laptop LCDs seem to be like that though. Laptops with 17" widescreens use the same 1920x1200 resolution that Sandwich was showing off on a 24" desktop monitor. I have no idea why it's like this.

 

Offline StratComm

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That's being corrected; the new Dell 17" uses a 1280x960 native (or something like it, I don't have it handy to check).  The one I just got though, three years old, has a 1600x1200 monitor that can't be much bigger than 15".  Maybe the optimal viewing location is considered closer to the screen than on a desktop?
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Offline Sandwich

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I just wish they'd move beyond Sony Clie screen DPI, to where individual pixels are not discernable, and the OS everything according to the actualy physical size it is when displayed on-screen. :)
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Flipside

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All I can add to this is that I remember playing Multiplayer Quake on I-Books, and the moment your head moved the tiniest fraction, you got the most horrible wash-outs and colour fades that the game was unplayable. Three of us were playing using I-Books, the person who won the game wasn't actually at the computer because they'd been called away, and thus hadn't blundered into huge holes or pools of lava as many times :/

 

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Offline mikhael

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My Dell C840 is a 1600x1200 display and its absolutely perfect. Lightwave is painfully lovely on this thing. :D


Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
I just wish they'd move beyond Sony Clie screen DPI, to where individual pixels are not discernable, and the OS everything according to the actualy physical size it is when displayed on-screen. :)


You should see the screen on my Axim X50v. 480x640, on a PDA screen. The display is so fine grained that you REALLY have to look close to see the pixels.
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Offline CP5670

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That's being corrected; the new Dell 17" uses a 1280x960 native (or something like it, I don't have it handy to check). The one I just got though, three years old, has a 1600x1200 monitor that can't be much bigger than 15". Maybe the optimal viewing location is considered closer to the screen than on a desktop?


This would be very good to see. The small dot pitches on laptops are great for games but bad for Windows usage, but since laptops are usually only used for normal Windows tasks, it makes no sense to have such high resolutions. I don't know how close they expect you to sit. I have to really lean forward and have my eyes less than seven inches from the screen to see things for extended periods without squinting.

What makes matters worse is that I'm used to 1280x960 on my main 20" viewable monitor, so things on the laptop look very small in comparison. I use 1280x960 most of the time in Windows since it makes on-screen text about the same size as printed stuff, and only go up to 1600x1200 or 2048x1536 for occasional graphics work. Things still looks perfectly sharp at 2048 and the refresh rate is the same, but text becomes really tiny and starts to hurt my eyes after a little while.

I have heard that my monitor can unofficially do 2340x1755 and 2560x1920, although only at 75hz and 60hz respectively. It would be really fun to try those resolutions out, but the only video cards that support them are some Matrox workstation cards that cost several thousand dollars.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 03:17:08 pm by 296 »