Author Topic: There is something wrong.... very wrong.  (Read 2531 times)

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Offline Lightspeed

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
Okay, off to testing I am. :)
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Offline Lightspeed

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
More Information

Okay, I did some more more testing today.

1. The 6-10 build

overall framerates a bit faster than on previous builds, but the problems remain (though the white square thingy seems to be pretty much fixed). The difference bewteen normal and d3dbadtsys got smaller. Now both ways lock up if I use the external camera to watch multiple ships (see below). The average FPS with the normal rendering is 0,2 FPS better than with -d3d_bad_tsys, but has a lot more hanging and stuttering.

Also, 'new' in this build, is the bug where any glows (thruster glows) suddenly get incredibly huge and go about 500% of their normal size, and then swap back immediately. Missiles tend to get rather messy too.

Another thing I noticed, is that without "d3d_badtsys" there seem to be glitches with background musics being played (namely: The game chose a wrong briefing music). With d3d_bad_tsys the right music was chosen and played.

2. The problems

I ran through all this with -stats and -timerbar to analyse where the problem seems to be coming from. I discovered some really interesting things.

Problem1: External camera
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If I switch to external camera with a bit of fighting behind me, the framerate will instantly drop to x.x values and stay there. Sometimes the textures of ships (mostly the player ship) will whiten out.

TIMERBAR says: 10 complete red lines, 5 complete blue lines, 12 dark red lines, 13 black lines + some tiny snippets (green, pink, etc)

STATS: What came to my attention almost instantly is that the free texture memory (normally really small values such as 3 or 7) was relatively large while it was hanging, namely at 88 MB. (from 128 MB memory on my vid card, mind you). This value kept fluttering around (hard to see at 4 FPS) around this value.

Problem2: Hanging during gameplay
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If textures come into my screen, the game will sometimes hang for a short time, and then go on normally. Note that this wont happen only once, so the same texture can make me hang twice. This also happens if ships explode, or just randomly while i'm turning around.

TIMERBAR says:
a) Lots of dark red lines.
b) Lots of black lines
c) Some blue lines

A and B can happen seperately (i.e. only dark red, or only black). Some stutters also seem to have a lot of bright red lines in it.

STATS: While I kept watching the stats I noticed that everytime the game slows down to one of the hangs there was a lot of texture memory freed. The Texture memory free went from 5 MB to around 30 MB in most cases. (the other memory consumption was not changed in any way). After the hanger, it was back at 5 MB. I *think* the hanging is produced by the fact that the game reloads some textures unneccessarily - An object comes into your FOV, the game trashes the textures it has ALREADY loaded for it, and then reloads them (leading to the hanging). Whatever happens, vid card memory is freed and filled immediately afterwards every time the hangings occur.

Problem 3: Explosion hanger
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Even with retail explosions the game seems to slow down to 5 FPS sometimes (some other times it doesnt affect my FPS *at all*.). This seems to occur randomly when something explodes.

TIMERBAR says: 57+ complete black lines, 3 complete blue lines, 1 red line. Sometimes the red lines flicker up and grow to about 20 red lines - this doesn't happen every time it hangs on an explosion.

STATS: Nothing unusual, everything stays about the same as far as I could see.

Side note: For some reason, FS2 SCP seems to be consuming 1400+ MB of memory. This is a bit.... much, isn't it?
Modern man is the missing link between ape and human being.

 

Offline Lightspeed

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
bump :(
Modern man is the missing link between ape and human being.

 
There is something wrong.... very wrong.
Well, I THOUGHT something was wrong here when I was using Bob's build with my combi-Omniscaper super mega giga Star Trek ship pack combo i whipped together. I can't even face the Galaxy Class once without the FPS dropping to zilch. In fact, "Sector 001" is now unplayable (the one with teh super high polygon Earth model).

Oh yeah, and to make matters worse, Bob's build here, it kinda, well, CANT DISPLAY ANY DDS TEXTURES (dxt flag or not)...a problem that has been around ever since Bob's first tinkering build I ever tested, and that was a long time ago (prolly the very first environment mapping build, i gather.).

3.6 vanilla build displays ships with DDS textures; Bob's borks it every time without fail, displaying nothing where the damn model should be when it cant find the DDS textures that are RIGHT THERE.

 

Offline Bobboau

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
you know I think I'm going to manualy add features into the current CVS tree some time this weekend, I'm hardly seeing any of these issues.
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Offline Lightspeed

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
Some of the problems happen with 3.6 too, but are a lot less intense there.

This is NOT specifically limited to Bob's builds.
Modern man is the missing link between ape and human being.

 
There is something wrong.... very wrong.
I didn't see the DDS bug until Bob's first environment mapping build. Although it could have been before them, I'm speaking only from my own experience. i never said that I'm sure that Bob was responsible, but i suspect it. im open to suggestions from other people who have similar problems, of course.

and i too experience white boxes, uniquely on the latest builds only, seemingly every modified build, 3.5 or 6, around the time of and following the Bobbeau Environment Mapping 2 build has been somewhat unstable for me...mainly problems with INTERFACE GRAPHICS (like the mainhall and the actual Quit Game? screen!) would be disappearing, causing crashes...

...At the present time I am using JPG's and DDS's to make up for the fact that even a Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB will not put up with super high res barely-compressed TGA's in large quantities. I really hope someday someone takes the time to DDSize all the textures in FS2. Everyone who retextures anything these days puts in TGA textures at the best size vs. performance possible, but without accounting for the possibility of other custom textures adding up. All these texture remakes are costing us all big time. In a nutshell, IMHO, TGA textures absolutely suck.

 DDS is superior performance wise and unless one is trying to destroy every last drop of their graphics card's memory (especially if they are using Anisotropic Filtering and/or Antialiasing which effectively double or triple video memory requirements), TGA's are not a good idea.

Personally...I'd recommend PNG. It's not as compressed as JPG, and a lot better in quality than JPG, but its not nearly as bloated as TGA. And, the difference between a PNG and a TGA isn't really all that noticeable. Did I mention PNG's also support alpha channels JUST LIKE TGA?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2004, 02:41:23 pm by 1644 »

 

Offline CP5670

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
I fully agree, the tgas have almost no compression and make for unnecessarily large filesizes. I think 32-bit pcxs would be ideal, as they have some of the best lossless compression I have seen. dds has good compression but can mess up the quality on certain kinds of images.

I have not seen this white square thing at all with the original 3.6 but haven't tried Bob's decal builds (computer was completely messed up with heat problems for the last few days and I only just got it fixed). I will run one of those a bit later and see what happens.

 
I got a big problem. I've been trying to play any mod with 3.6 , even the 3.6c  to free up resources, but to no avial nomatter which mod I try (inferno, Fstrek, RT, B5) it always says MOd name can't contain spaces!!! Is there a way I can TRICK the exe into thinking it ISN'T a mod like renaming it one of the core VP files? That way it runs it regardless?

   Does anyone know WHY this inability of the launcher to allow a mod to be chosen occurs? I like the SCP build for the Original Campaign but I want to at least enjoy Omni's ships!
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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
I have no idea. Check your directory names, then try possibly reducing the number of flags.

ALSO, make sure u are using launcher version 5, not 4. v5 is designed for 3.6.

 

Offline Lightspeed

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
You all realize that once loaded into your texture memory ALL file formats have exactly the same file size, right?

The only format that doesnt (and only on modern video cards) is DDS. And DDS is not precisely usable for anything with colour gradients.

But please, don't off topic this thread as these problems really ought to be looked in to and eventually be sorted out.
Modern man is the missing link between ape and human being.

 

Offline Bobboau

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
some people arn't as sensitive to the gradient issue as you are, I hardly see any diference, and the performence diference can be dramatic
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline CP5670

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
I just tried some missions on the 6/10 Bob build and the framerates were always good and consistent. The external view worked fine and there were no white squares. I actually used to get the ani slowdown in pre-3.6 builds, but it stopped occurring with 3.6 and does not happen in anything more recent. I did notice the erratic thrusterglow sizes though, which was especially apparent on missiles. The glowpoints were shown too big in the tech room view, which might be related to that. It also doesn't seem to remember the last used pilot, which is a minor issue but can get annoying

This is all without the d3d_bad_tsys thing.

Quote
You all realize that once loaded into your texture memory ALL file formats have exactly the same file size, right?


I know, I am talking about the space they take up on the hard drive and possibly in downloads. It doesn't make any sense to have the vp files so large when simply changing the tga's to 32-bit pcx's cuts the vp sizes to around half without losing any image quality.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2004, 09:58:45 pm by 296 »

 

Offline Lightspeed

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
and you wouldnt have any textures in game, as 32-bit pcx are not supported. Yay!
Modern man is the missing link between ape and human being.

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
Do you want to force people to download large files or something? :wtf:
-C

 

Offline CP5670

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
Quote
and you wouldnt have any textures in game, as 32-bit pcx are not supported. Yay!


yeah...which is why I was suggesting that support be added at some point. :p I mean, the size difference is so dramatic that there really isn't any point in using the uncompressed tga format over something like 32-bit pcx.

It seems that my computer messed up again and is not going to be operational for a while (at least one of the memory dimms has died or is about to and I need to find a replacement); I was going to also test that version with the d3d_bad_tsys thing but I guess that has to wait. Maybe I could try the game on this laptop, although I bet it would look like crap with that color reduction issue I'm having.

By the way, was this place down again last night or was it just me?

 

Offline Bobboau

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
it's been down for a few days
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

  

Offline Lightspeed

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There is something wrong.... very wrong.
uhm the problems not the textures, you can use maximum quality JPGES for them at a rather good quality (i.e. no visible detail loss). Thats what I did with my shinemap zip.

The problem is the Shinemaps. Those HAVE to be TGA, as TGA is the ONLY FORMAT that allows an alpha channel.

Except of course, DDS. But as I have already mentioned, DDS is not a valid choice (for me).
Modern man is the missing link between ape and human being.