Author Topic: Node Map  (Read 12821 times)

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Offline Warlock

  • Death Angel
  • 29
    • Holocron Productions
 
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
  Warlock, you came to the right place! That's Ascraeus' map. It's based off of Icefire's map for Warzone, but as you can see, it has Shivan space on it as well. That map was originally intended for a user campaign entitled "Behind Enemy Lines" (also known as BEL), but it fell through. Ascraeus has a post here on HLP discussing his work on his own campaign, which for now is known as "FS2.9".

Just go to the "FS3?" topic here in the General Freespace forum. also, you can find Ascraeus' FS2.9 outline here at :
 http://faculty.concord.edu/manzione/fs3.htm

Enjoy!  

Yall mind if i make a little use of it?  
Warlock



DeathAngel Squadron, Forever remembered.


Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon

To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.

We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
You'll need Ascraeus' permission for that; it's his map.
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 

Offline Pez

  • 26
 
Quote
Originally posted by TDM/JM:
The "orange" system, Eriu, is a "special case" that is explained in the plot of FS 2.9. Can't say more than that, because the campaign is going ahead with some very good folks involved, and work will start in earnest early next year.

Khrishna is not the Shivan homeworld -- there may be no Shivan "homeworld" -- but it is one of the Shivan core systems. This map's an older one from the BEL campaign; the newer one at
 http://faculty.concord.edu/manzione/fs3.htm

has been updated with Dyson's spheres and ingress/egress routes.

Ascraeus

Perfect, that was really the answers I wanted to hear. Cause I don't think that the Shivans have a homeworld.

Pez

 

Offline TDM/JM

  • 24
 
Quote
Originally posted by Warlock:
Yall mind if i make a little use of it?  

Knock yourself out!  

Ascraeus

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
Ascraeus, I mentioned this before in an e-mail, but now that we have the two maps (official one and yours) side-by-side, there's something I want to discuss.

There are a number of GTVA systems mentioned/marked on your map that are not in the official Volition map. These systems have the following names: Gienah Cygni, Kaus Borealis, Mintaka, Delphi, Tania Australis, Tegmen, Epsilon Eridani, and (most importantly) Ghenna and N362.

My beef is this: since these systems are not in the Volition map, but are in yours, we need to find a rationale for having these new systems appear in your map that is consistent with official FS2 canon.

You mentioned in your outline that the Anhuradha juggernaut was captured in Delta Serpentis and that a great deal of intelligence info (including jump node maps) was salvaged from it.

My rationale for the new GTVA systems is as follows: We know that the Shivans visited GTVA space before, 8000 years ago when they destroyed the Ancients. So it stands to reason that the Shivans have more extensive knowledge of the number of jump nodes in GTVA space. (This can also explain how the Lucifer fleet managed to outmanuver the Allied fleet in the First Great War, traveling between systems without apparent jump nodes.) So these new GTVA systems (Gienah Cygni and so on) are only very recently discovered because of the info gleaned from the Anhurada's database. As such, these systems, when they are referred to, should be either (especially in the case of N362) military bases closed to non-civilian traffic or VERY new colonies. Since these systems were only discovered just 3 years after the events of FS2, any Terran or Vasudan presence there would have to be very new (and probably minimal as well).

Concerning Ghenna: Considering that Ghenna is a newly discovered system that did NOT have its jump nodes collapsed to cut off its route to Shivan Space in FS2, this will have to be accounted for as well. Perhaps, when the Anhuradha was captured, the GTVA saw right away that the Ghenna and N362 systems led to Shivan Space and went into an enormous tizzy fit when they saw that two routes allowing the Shivans to re-invade GTVA space still lay open. The GTVA then immediately deployed another decomissioned Orion loaded with a cargo of Meson bombs to collapse the Ghenna jump node in the Ribos system.

Additional note: this operation to collapse that node (and maybe the Ghenna system's very existence) was in all likelihood classified at the highest level so as not to start a general panic in the civilian population. It's doubtful that this operation requres an another mission in the FS2.9 campaign. If the Shivans are ignoring the GTVA because the Shivans have prioritized battling the Andarta before dealing with the GTVA again, then no Shivans would have been about to invade GTVA space from Ghenna when the GTVA went to collapse the Ghenna node in Ribos. (Creating a mission that would have no enemies to fight would be pointless, after all.) Since there were no enemies to fight, the operation to seal off the Ghenna system probably went off without a hitch (for once).

We also see that N362 also has nodes leading to Shivan space, but GTVA Command (apparently) decided to leave those two nodes open in order to leave itself an opening for the GTVA taskforce to enter (and return from) Shivan Space. To guard against any new Shivan invasion in the meantime (while the taskforce is being prepared), a (very) large military presence would have to be required at N362.

Perhaps the entire existence of N362 was concealed from the public at large as well. After all, telling the public that you're leaving open a route that leaves the GTVA vulnerable to a new Shivan invasion might start a new general panic also.

Having the player deployed to "a new secret base in a classified system" also adds a bit more mystery (in addition to what's already there     ) to this story as well, IMHO    

Ascraeus, I think you might need to state these rationales (or something like them) in your campaign somewhere.

What do you think of all this?
------------------
FRED Zone's Grammar editor/ FS history moderator
Former member of TCA
Member in good standing of 99th Skulls
Honorary member of TCS and UGC

"I created your civilization...now I will destroy it!"
--Ra, the Sun God


[This message has been edited by Su-tehp (edited 12-06-2001).]
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 

Offline IceFire

  • GTVI Section 3
  • 212
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ce
 
Quote
Additional note: this operation to collapse that node (and maybe the Ghenna system's very existence) was in all likelihood classified at the highest level so as not to start a general panic in the civilian population. It's doubtful that this operation requres an another mission in the FS2.9 campaign. If the Shivans are ignoring the GTVA because the Shivans have prioritized battling the Andarta before dealing with the GTVA again, then no Shivans would have been about to invade GTVA space from Ghenna when the GTVA went to collapse the Ghenna node in Ribos. (Creating a mission that would have no enemies to fight would be pointless, after all.) Since there were no enemies to fight, the operation to seal off the Ghenna system probably went off without a hitch (for once).

We also see that N362 also has nodes leading to Shivan space, but GTVA Command (apparently) decided to leave those two nodes open in order to leave itself an opening for the GTVA taskforce to enter (and return from) Shivan Space. To guard against any new Shivan invasion in the meantime (while the taskforce is being prepared), a (very) large military presence would have to be required at N362.

Perhaps the entire existence of N362 was concealed from the public at large as well. After all, telling the public that you're leaving open a route that leaves the GTVA vulnerable to a new Shivan invasion might start a new general panic also.

Having the player deployed to "a new secret base in a classified system" also adds a bit more mystery (in addition to what's already there  ) to this story as well, IMHO

Ascraeus, I think you might need to state these rationales (or something like them) in your campaign somewhere.
Some of this stuff is in need of some ironing out because the map were talking about is based on a map I did for Warzone which took into account some stuff Ace was going to do but never did.

Infact, I think I'm going to start a new topic about a little something I want to do.
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline Carl

  • Render artist
  • 211
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/
Best node map ever!
 
"Gunnery control, fry that ****er!" - nuclear1

 

Offline ^Graff

  • 26
Carl, that is a great map.
Quote
Originally posted by Anduril:
Dang, Graff, you good.  :)

 

Offline TDM/JM

  • 24
 
Quote
Originally posted by IceFire:
Quote
Some of this stuff is in need of some ironing out because the map were talking about is based on a map I did for Warzone which took into account some stuff Ace was going to do but never did. [/b]

Su-tehp -- IceFire's comment is pretty much the case. The BEL map I did was largely a "road map" for internal use in the first iteration of campaign production, and wasn't really meant for the "public." I simply pirated IF's map off the web and welded on the Shivan features, largely to keep the BEL campaign people apprised of where we were going. So you're right to point out that some of these inconsistencies are going to have to be fixed. I've saved your comments, and we'll take a look at them when we get there.

Two things -- the Shivan space on the BEL map is designated "partially explored" -- there's more out there, but the listed systems are all that the GTVA has information on, and that incompletely, at best. And the node at N-362 was a partially collapsed artifact that had to be artificially stabilized before the GTVA task force could jump through. Those may be features that will be kept in the "FS 2.9" campaign, or maybe not.

Thanks for your comments! Ascraeus


 

Offline Ace

  • Truth of Babel
  • 212
    • http://www.lordofrigel.com
For the Ghenna story, play Twilight once Steak finishes the cbs and I re-release it   Needless to say, the GTVA keeps all records on it on a need-to-know basis, how the alliance even discovered the system in the firstplace before Twilight is... well... that will be explained later. The system is a red giant ejecting it's outer shells, and contains multiple node clusters utilized fully by the Shivans.

N362 is a neutron star, it has unstable nodes to various corners of GTVA space and is a tactical asset to the alliance despite their current inability to use the nodes.

Delphi is a system with a small blue dwarf star and a large gas giant that holds a mineral rich debris field in it's trojan points. Corporations such as STX have small research stations and GTVA R&D has an outpost which is lightly armed and only researching rock and core samples of a smaller moon of the gas giant. cough, not what's really going on, cough

------------------
Ace
Staff member FreeSpace Watch
 http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
 
Quote
Originally posted by TDM/JM:
Su-tehp -- you're right to point out that some of these inconsistencies are going to have to be fixed. I've saved your comments, and we'll take a look at them when we get there.

Yeah, these are the sort of inconsistencies that can kill a campaign. I was REALLY worried about this; I'm glad you let me know that you're working on this. I can't wait to see what kind of new map you might come up with!  

 
Quote
Originally posted by TDM/JM:
Thanks for your comments! Ascraeus


No problem, Ascraeus! Glad I could help.  

------------------
FRED Zone's Grammar editor/ FS history moderator
Former member of TCA
Member in good standing of 99th Skulls
Honorary member of TCS and UGC

"I created your civilization...now I will destroy it!"
--Ra, the Sun God
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 210
Ascraeus, please read pay close attention  

A new suggestion just occurred to me: if you do make a new map, maybe you could have Shivan-Andarta Space in a completely different galaxy altogeher from GTVA space. While the BEL map is good, it seems to look that Shivan-Andarta Space is essentially "just around the corner" from Terran-Vasudan space according to the scale of the BEL map.

According to how the scale of the BEL map looks to me, it seems that GTVA territory encompasses  maybe a couple of dozen cubic light-years. This would make the entirety of the BEL map encompass about maybe a thousand light-years across, tops? That seems like too short a distance for an epic conflict like the Shivan-Andarta War to be occurring. To increase the sense of isolation the GTVA taskforce would feel, it might be a good idea to have Shivan-Andarta Space so far away that Terran-Vasudan Space should not even be visible on the FS2.9 map. Putting an arrow on one side of the Shivan-Andarta Space map saying "Terran-Vasudan Space in this direction; distance unknown" might also be a good idea.

We should remember FS1 implied that the Ancients' empire might have spanned several galaxies (each connected by the Knossos devices), so Shivan Space has to be AT LEAST that large. Having the FS2.9 story take place in a different galaxy would make sense in this context.

As to how the taskforce would get to this faraway galaxy (assuming the taskforce can't use the GTVA Knossos in Delta Serpentis for some reason), I have a solution: there could be an undiscovered Knossos in Ross 128 (this could help explain the Lucifer fleet's sudden appearance in Terran-Vasudan space without warning). I think I told you about this before (FRED Zone made a validated mission on PXO about this Knossos), but if you need me to clarify about this, reply to this post. Let me know what you think of my "new map" suggestion as well.
------------------
FRED Zone's Grammar editor/ FS history moderator
Former member of TCA
Member in good standing of 99th Skulls
Honorary member of TCS and UGC

"I created your civilization...now I will destroy it!"
--Ra, the Sun God


[This message has been edited by Su-tehp (edited 12-07-2001).]
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 

Offline IceFire

  • GTVI Section 3
  • 212
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ce
 
Quote
We should remember FS1 implied that the Ancients' empire might have spanned several galaxies (each connected by the Knossos devices), so Shivan Space has to be AT LEAST that large. Having the FS2.9 story take place in a different galaxy would make sense in this context.
I think it was that the galaxy was there's...not several galaxies.

I could be wrong.
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline joek

  • Heh heh... not funny.
  • 27
    • http://www.joek.com/
Just a quick node map comment... I was looking up a reference for the Shivan Society thread, and I found this command breifing in sm3-07a.fsm:

Page 1:

 
Quote
The Shivans have finally determined the location of the Sol system.  The Lucifer has moved into position here in Sirius for the subspace jump to Delta Serpentis.

Page 3:

 
Quote
We have been assigned the task of destroying the Lucifer before she reaches Sol.  The Bastion is currently en route to intercept the Lucifer at the Sirius-Delta Serpentis subspace node.

Sirius-Delta Serpentis node!?!? Was the FS1 nodemap that different from the FS2 one?

Joe.

------------------
No, he's not back for real, just popping his head in to say "hello" while on break from classes.

 

Offline Eishtmo

  • The one and only
  • 29
  • The One and Only
    • http://www.angelfire.com/games2/fsarchive/index.html
Oh yeah they were different.  In fact, a whole star system (Talania) up and vanished between the two games.  Unfortuantly, I haven't been able to find an old FS1 node map to confirm this.

------------------
Visit Warpstorm.  Do it now.

---------

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I know there is a method, but all I see is madness.

 

Offline Nico

  • Venom
    Parlez-vous Model Magician?
  • 212
well, for my part, I'm using icefire one, but changed Tau Eridani to Tau Ceti.
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline adwight

  • Neo-Terran
  • 28
  • Go Gators!
Also guys, where can I find the 'official' map from Volition?

Neo-Terra Victorious

The Lightning Marshall

158th Banshee Squadron

Gay people are rejects who can't get girls. Period. -DragonClaw
Can I have sex with it yet? -KnightTemplar

 

Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
  • 215
    • Hard Light Productions
The official one is the one Eish posted way up there.  
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
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Offline adwight

  • Neo-Terran
  • 28
  • Go Gators!
K thanx guys.  As soon as I feel like it, maybe I'll post mine on here  
Neo-Terra Victorious

The Lightning Marshall

158th Banshee Squadron

Gay people are rejects who can't get girls. Period. -DragonClaw
Can I have sex with it yet? -KnightTemplar

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
 
Quote
Originally posted by joek:
Sirius-Delta Serpentis node!?!? Was the FS1 nodemap that different from the FS2 one?

Not certain about this but maybe it's an unstable node that the shivans used but Terrans couldn`t.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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