Author Topic: HTL Demon?  (Read 13630 times)

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Offline StratComm

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Don't forget to pay attention to the textures though.  The original Demon has a quarter-arc on its maps near the head that is a fairly important feature as far as mapping goes.  Don't move it, break it up, or otherwise obscure it if you can help it.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline TrashMan

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You've seen my high-poly versions of FS2 capships. They are as true to the original as possible.
no worry:D

EDIT: The only thing I'm unsure about is the engines..they are so strange and...strange!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2006, 05:57:12 am by TrashMan »
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Offline BlackDove

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I think the Demon was grossly GROSSLY underdeveloped because of the game restrictions.

Personally I think you should smoothe and spikey the hell out of it. Naturally keeping it to canon looks, just way more badass and Shivany.

That's my personal opinion anyway.

 

Offline Cobra

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it might be from perspective, but i think you need to lower the sides a bit, as they don't seem canon enough. :)
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Offline TrashMan

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I could use some advice on the engine secztion...the very rear.. It's just so confusing and the onyl thing I realyl want to change on the whole Demo concept, but have no idea to what or how...
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Offline StratComm

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Whatever you do, don't get rid of the strip engines like the Lucifer, Cain and Lilith have.  They define Shivan almost as much as the triangle on the front.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline TrashMan

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Thing is, in their currrent form thes don't even look like engines. If it weren't for hte glows you could never tell.

The engines are the onyl things left to finish, but I simply can't decide what to do.. :mad:
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Offline Cobra

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how about giving us an ass view of them? :)
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline StratComm

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If you want to make them more like the red lines on the Cain and Lucifer then that would be a place to start.  But be really careful, because they are still supposed to be Shivan engines.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline StratComm

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Having seen the pics that are eventually coming, I like what's been done so far but there are a few things I'd like to see improved.  One is just the direction of extrusions; on the nose, the three red bars should be inset, not extruded (pull the space between them out instead of in).  Another involves the dragonscaling that's been done in parts of the ship.  It works pretty well, especially on the head, but it needs to be more consistant.  Of the upper shell of the hull, it looks like only about 40% got this treatment.  It should be everywhere or not at all.  And see what it does with the textures on it before you call it final; they may clash like there's no tomorrow.  Of course, you'll never know about that until you try.  Lastly, the engines.  That's actually about what I was hoping to see.  Inset is correct for Shivan capital engines (see Cain/Lilith) and while they are a little deeper than I'd really like that's really a matter of taste.  The one thing I would like to see brought back was the implied complexity of the engines given the way they were mapped on the original model.  They weren't just red stripes, they had structure.  You may try put a girder-like structure over them or something, as I can see that working nicely.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline TrashMan

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Does look better with grides...tried it :D

I'm allso adding moredetail to the 3rd "arm" and have started texturing the head..
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Offline FireCrack

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YOu may consider, for the kinda "wings" under the head, adding butresses on the inside to support them.
actualy, mabye not.
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Offline TrashMan

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Added those litlte extrusions..and started texturing hte head

http://dj.rogueserv.com/TRASHMAN/Pics/Demon3.JPG
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Offline FireCrack

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The texture on the top is way overtiled.

Also, the bottom wasn't all that black-red texture.
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline StratComm

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WAY overtiled.  Look at :v:'s Demon.  The curvy part of that texture is almost the full size of the head, and matches the curve of the armor belt around the red glow bits.  The tiling factor is at most 1/3 of what you're using now.

EDIT: I'm going to add that I believe the Demon may have been the best tiled ship :v: made.  Yes, it uses tiled maps, as was more or less essential for a ship of its size in FS1's days.  But the time and effort spent making those tile maps look good is obviously much, much more than just slapping a box mapping on the thing.  If it were possible for a ship that low-poly to have elegant and alien curves, the Demon definitely pulled it off.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 08:20:39 pm by StratComm »
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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A couple of things I notice:
1) As has been said, the tiling factor is too much. [v] was pretty clever with their usage of tiled maps on the Demon. The details on the maps matched or suited the places to which they were applied, even if the actual geometry was lacking. The overall effect is that the textures look much better than they would if they'd just been slapped on as they had on the aeolus, triton or many other FS2 ships.

2) The mapping is not symmetrical. Symmetry is one of those reasons the Demon's somewhat odd textures look like they're meant to be that way.

3) You're being way too conservative of polys to be honest. The whole reason for the rebuilding of the [v] ships is to build the ships as [v] would have if they had a much bigger poly budget than they did. The HTL engine is very powerful. As long as you keep the map count to a bare minimum (1 big UV map would be nice :p ), the ship may as well be 50 000 polys, since it's not going to greatly dent performance. Remember that the number of copies of these big ships in a mission is also of little concern. :)

4) Just step back and take a look at the Demon to determine what details should be modeled in, and then model them! The textures and geometry must work well together and complement each other if the ship is to look good overall, and the best way to do that with HTL ships is to get the ideas for the geometric detail from the textures themselves.
You could try something like this: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/Hecate_Outlines.jpg
It's an old image I used to help Grimloq get ideas for things to do with his hecate. It's basically a combination of highlighting detail-worthy texture features and new geometry ideas. I could do a similar one for the Demon if you like? :)
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Offline TrashMan

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Noticed that about the tilin.. It's easy to fix :D

I know the mapping is symetrical and that's what I plan to do. no worry.

You can always put more pollies.. and I can too. Maby I will in several places, but if you're asking me to smoothify it then the answer is no - it would be a crime to smooth the Demon.. it must have the rugged, blockish look.
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Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Rugged yes, but not blockish with sharp corners as a fair ammount of it is now - left over from the original.

Here's one of those idea&feature outline things I just made for the Demon:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Demon.jpg
and without the Demon itself in the BG:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/DemonShaded.jpg
Now, while you probably wouldn't model in _everything_ there, maybe it can give you ideas for more interesting ways to approach it.

It's just, the more I look at what's changed so far, the more it looks like a touch up than a HTL job. :\
Some parts have changed, and it is a bit better - but it really needs more than that to reach full Demony potential.
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Offline StratComm

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Rugged yes, but not blockish with sharp corners as a fair ammount of it is now - left over from the original.
...
It's just, the more I look at what's changed so far, the more it looks like a touch up than a HTL job. :\
Some parts have changed, and it is a bit better - but it really needs more than that to reach full Demony potential.

Quoted for truth.  VA's sketch ups have highlighted what I said earlier about modeling in the details of the textures rather than making the textures fit your greebling.  I was worried about the scales on the head reacting with the mapping, and it would appear that my concerns were justified.

And the Demon certainly should be smoothed out, as a shaded (untextured) view of it in Modelview clearly shows.  You've already changed the lines (by making the rib structure on the bottom square) which I don't like but you haven't even made the huge single-poly surfaces on the original model go away.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Hey, that's basically what I was suggesting for the head section.
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