[kmunoz]

Where the heck did the version that popped up on Versiontracker (on January 15th) come from? I can't find information about it anywhere, so I'm not even sure *who* released it, although clearly it's the 3.6.7 build plus all the extra files (MVEs, for example). The developer link goes to a Volition page, but that's half a decade out of date. The download link goes to edgegaming, but I can't find other links to that site from HLP or the SCP. Then I find out that the OS X 3.6.7 build has been around for at least a month, though obviously lacking the extra files. So I'm confused.

The FS2 on Versiontracker was my introduction to the game - so I've only even heard of it for four days. I'm catching up as fast as I can as far as learning about the community. I'd like to know where in the grand scheme of things the VT version fits, so I can figure out how and when to utilize new builds and mods.

[WMCoolmon]

I've heard nothing on the forums about a VersionTracker being posted, so it's probably an 'outside' source.

[taylor]

Not sure where the VT version came from, but it wasn't me.  I know that someone made a torrent of a full install, with the official 3.6.7 version included, since the installation instructions were a bit too much for most people.  I'm guessing that this is just that version, only a lot more public now.  There is one problem with the two though, it's 100% illegal.  The binary can be distributed at will, but the game data can not.  You can can either purchase the full CD in the store or online (if you can find it), or you can fear that letter from Volition's attorneys.  Either way you'll end up paying for it.

I know that it (the torrent) was insanely popular and I think it was downloaded something like 40,000+ times.  Needless to say, the OS X version extremely popular, and I have been totally overwhelmed in trying to support it.  Hell, even some of the Volition guys were eagerly awaiting the 3.6.7 OS X version.  I'm very behind in the new versions now but current CVS builds will resume in another week or two.

[kmunoz]

Bummer. I can well imagine that the OS X version would be popular, since Mac users haven't had a decent game of this sort since Terminus, which was sort of like the redheaded stepchild of space sims. Of course there's Homeworld 2, but even on high-end Macs it would still run faster if you had your kid sister drawing every frame in crayon.

I'm going to have to go hunting for a copy of FS2, then... and I hope the VT link gets squelched. It didn't *look* dodgy, just half-competent (as far as the downloading links were concerned), and the version numbering made no sense.

One thing I'll mention in passing: it took me 4 days to locate the "legitimate" FS2_Open MacOS X 3.6.7 build (and I can't actually remember where I found it now, but presumably somewhere around HLP). The builds for other platforms weren't hard to find; the MacOS X one just wasn't with them, FYI.

[taylor]

I made a post on the VT link saying that it was illegal to distribute.  But whether or not it gets taken down isn't something that is up to me, it's up to the VT people or to Volition themselves.  It's well known that the game is difficult to get ahold of which may be why Volition appears to tolerate this type of stuff to an extent, but there is no telling when they might decide that enough is enough and resort to legal action.

One thing I'll mention in passing: it took me 4 days to locate the "legitimate" FS2_Open MacOS X 3.6.7 build (and I can't actually remember where I found it now, but presumably somewhere around HLP). The builds for other platforms weren't hard to find; the MacOS X one just wasn't with them, FYI.

Yeah, sorry about that.  I need to get my butt in gear and get it linked everywhere.  It's linked in the official 3.6.7 release thread but isn't on the official SCP site.  I've been wanting to fix the OpenAL issue before doing that but just haven't had the time.

For future reference:
All official Linux and OS X builds (and official source code for the release) will be avaiable at http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/releases.
All testing/CVS builds will be available at http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/testing and will also be listed (most of the time) in the Recent Builds forum.
All testing/CVS builds which might be dangerous will be available at http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/willrobinson and may or may not be listed in the Recent Builds forum.

The "testing" builds are generally safe.  I mainly use that for current CVS builds and sometimes for publicly testing new features that have passed all of my internal testing.  New features will generally be small or something that I have be using personally for a while before I consider them ready for general testing.

The "willrobinson" builds are usually things that would change init code and therefore may not start up on some systems, have new graphics code which may mess up, have changes to networking which may break with other builds, or have changes to external files (like pilot files) which would not work with other builds.  If you aren't sure, stay away from any builds in this directory unless I specifically say to try it.  Anything in this directory is officially "Use at your own risk!".

[taylor]

Well Volition knows about the VT link now.   One of the Volition QA guys made a feedback post there.  I didn't think it would take them long to notice since I'm sure the various Mac forums were flooded with people who noticed the VT entry.  Don't if that means it will get removed or if it was just a "We're watching you..." joke type of thing.  I'm sure Volition doesn't like the game being given out to everyone but Freespace 2 is more popular than it ever was, and you almost can't buy the game anymore so I doubt they are making much in the way of money off of it.  Either way it's a great game and Volition deserves much praise for it.

[Muriac]

Ok, this is interesting. I finally made it here after downloading the VT version and following the breadcrumbs. I own the full version of the game from way back when so legality isn't an issue for me. However, I've posted in the Arstechnica thread that pointed out the VT link in the first place to let people there know about the issue.

Anyway, now that I'm playing one of the best games ever made on my platform of choice, perhaps someone could tell me how to get the lighting working properly. The game runs Ok on my G4 PowerBook, and the new textures and models are there, but the lighting is always flat no matter what I put in the command line or where I put the settings in-game. I want to see the specular and glow maps, not to mention just plain old directional lighting. I've got the mediavp files (everything from the zpack as well as the first two 3.6.7 patches) and my cmdline_fso.cfg file looks like this:

Code: [Select]

-loadonlyused -2d_poof -jpgtga -glow -spec -snd_preload
Is this a bug other people are experiencing, or does it stem from the quality of the VT release? Would I be best off just downloading the latest Mac release from SF and using the data from my old discs with that?

[taylor]

The VT download shouldn't affect this at all.  You aren't the only person that seems to get flat lighting, though it's rare, and I have no idea why it happens.  I'm going to release new OS X builds this week and those will have all of the current changes (which include better debugging) so I'll just wait to offer anything in the way of advise until you can try one of those.

[Muriac]

Is there anything I can do to help you figure out the cause of this? Debug logs, system info, trying various settings, etc.? I'm no codesmith, but I have a fairly good understanding of the mechanics of bugfixing.

I've actually got two other notable issues I'm experiencing. One is that there is an incredible slowdown when the yellow circular explosions are being rendered onscreen (from bombs or capital ships exploding, etc.). I am using the regular vp_effects file, so I'm not sure what the problem might be. Other effects do not seem to be an issue.

Finally, I have an issue with sound. I used to get really bad stuttering when sounds were being loaded, so I added the snd_preload parameter. Now, however, it seems that sounds don't get taken out of memory after they are loaded, and eventually there is no room for new sounds. This means that if I play more than a few missions in a row, new sounds slowly stop playing, so I don't hear any voices, etc.

[taylor]

1) I actually think that I stumbled onto the lighting problem last night.  I'm reworking a couple parts of the lighting code (old stupid stuff that I did) and so far it's a lot better but not perfect.  I'll be working on it throughout the week and I should have it all fixed in a few days.  In the meantime you should be able to sort of get around the problem by using the -ambient_factor cmdline option and setting it somewhere between 75 and 85.  Using -ambient_factor probably wan't fix it 100% of the time but it does get around my bad lighting setup.

2) How much video memory do you have?  Those explosions (I use a different one btw) take a lot of RAM and the slowdowns are tyically just lack of memory.

3) The sound code is getting a much needed rewrite.  It will have much better resource handling in the new code and the problem you are seeing should properly disappear.  No ETA on that, there are a few graphics things that are a bit higher priority right now.

[Muriac]

ambient_factor 80 does make the lighting better, in that it makes a form of shading appear. However, this shading is really screwed up. Where I normally get this:



I now get this:



Each triangle has its own lighting, and the result is an ugly mosaic of dark and light areas. What is interesting is that the shading does not change smoothly as the ship turns in the tech room. Rather, there are two patterns of light and dark shading: one pattern shows when the ship is viewed from the first 180 degrees, and the other pattern shows when the ship is viewed from the other 180 degrees.

What is interesting about these two sets of shading values is that the two points where they switch correspond exactly with a single frame of shaded rendering that appears when I view the same ship in the tech room without ambient_factor. So ambient_factor seems to switch the times whether I see random shading or no shading at all.

I can write this out again more clearly if you would like. I'm in a hurry at the moment.

Thanks for the help so far.