[Steel01]

I have made setups for both windows and linux. They fit on one 4.7GB DVD. The windows setup is made with inno setup and the linux with loki setup.

It contains:
Main FS2 VP's
Launcher 5.3
FS2 Open CVS Build ??/??/06
FS2 Cutscenes (AVI, XViD)
Media Vp's 3.6.8 Delta
Inferno R1
  Inferno SCP Enhancements
FS_Port 3.0 (all vp's)
  FS1 Cutscenes (AVI, DiVX 5.0)
  Awakenings

Now for several questions.
1. I need to know what the most stable recent build for both linux and windows that supports MVP 3.6.8 is.
2. For linux, someone put out a installer with OGL and GLX so's (I think it was Taylor), anyone know what happened to it?
3. Where to get stable cross-compatible OpenAL so's for linux.
4. Where does FS2_Open linux look for the vp's; does it use the FS2_PATH enviroment variable?
5. What is the best default command-line setup? (I will need this only for linux)
6. For linux, how does FS2_Open do per user settings (in other words, non-root)
Edit: 7. When running as superuser, is there a way to find the home directory of the non-priviledged user? (and create .fs2_open/fs2_open.ini in it)

If you haven't noticed, I finished the windows setup a while back and have been updating it, while slowly working into linux. When I finish this and if anybody is interested in it, I may be able to put it up on bittorrent via Azureus DHT.

Edit 2: *bangs head against wall* Forgot to mention the cutscenes. Converted myself a while back. Probably need to redo the FS1 Cutscenes in XViD.
Edit 3: FS_Port 3.0 released!
Edit 4: Fixed MVP's to work with FS_Port and added misc fixes to them from around the FSU.
Edit 5: Change directory Media_VP's to mediavps at Karajorma's request
Edit 6: Clarification, this does include the full set of vp's

[Spectre-7]

4. Where does FS2_Open linux look for the vp's; does it use the FS2_PATH enviroment variable?
5. What is the best default command-line setup? (I will need this only for linux)
6. For linux, how does FS2_Open do per user settings (in other words, non-root)

4.  I believe it searches for them in the working directory, as well as any directory specified with the -mod argument.

5. I don't know about best, but I think the following is pretty acceptable on modern hardware:
fs2_open_r -spec -glow -mipmap -jpgtga -targetinfo -orbradar -mod Media_VP (or wherever you're putting your extra Media_VPs)

6.  Per user settings are stored in ~/.fs2_open/
This includes fs2_open.ini, save files and cache.

Of course, I'm just some schmoe that's been mucking around with it the past week.  I'm sure someone smarter than myself will be along to answer these properly.

[taylor]

1. I need to know what the most stable recent build for both linux and windows that supports MVP 3.6.8 is.

There isn't one yet.  I've been too busy mucking around with the OS X builds to start on the Linux builds again.  Most of the Linux users are happy with just doing CVS builds themselves so I haven't been in a rush to get updated installers out.

2. For linux, someone put out a installer with OGL and GLX so's (I think it was Taylor), anyone know what happened to it?

It should still be on my site somewhere (just look through http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/).  I'm going to do new ones soon but have put it off until I get OGL updated to not link and instead load at runtime.  OpenAL will also get this treatment but that will have to wait a little while longer.

3. Where to get stable cross-compatible OpenAL so's for linux.

If you can find and grab the .run from the previous Loki installer I made then you should just be able to use the .so from there.  The next installer I do with have the binaries statically linked with OpenAL however.

4. Where does FS2_Open linux look for the vp's; does it use the FS2_PATH enviroment variable?

It looks through ~/.fs2_open/ first. Then through the working directory (should also be where the binary is located).  If you specify a -mod then it use that as a starting location, but keep to the same basic search order (ie. ~/.fs2_open/mod, ~/.fs2_open, /usr/local/games/freespace2/mod, /usr/local/games/freespace2).

5. What is the best default command-line setup? (I will need this only for linux)

User preference.  The default setup will be determined by the hardware on the user end.  Don't assume that -glow, -spec or anything else should be default.  The defaults are already default.  Command line options are read from <gamedir>/data/cmdline_fso.cfg first, then ~/.fs2_open/data/cmdline_fso.cfg, then the command line itself.  You can have system defaults in <gamedir>/data/cmdline_fso.cfg and then let users also specify their own options.  In any case where an option takes a value (such as -ambient_factor) the value from the last place the option is specified will be used.

A cross-platform Launcher is in the works which will make it much easier to specify options and use mods.

6. For linux, how does FS2_Open do per user settings (in other words, non-root)

All user options are stored in ~/.fs2_open.  All files that the game will create also go under ~/.fs2_open.  The game binary and default VPs can be read-only.

Edit: 7. When running as superuser, is there a way to find the home directory of the non-priviledged user? (and create .fs2_open/fs2_open.ini in it)

Not than I am aware.  The easiest thing to do is just setup a shell script for running the binary which will check for ~/.fs2_open/fs2_open.ini and if it doesn't exist, create it with your options.  This will be done for every user that runs the game.  Just note that ~/.fs2_open/fs2_open.ini will be created by the game itself the first time it is run and contain the defaults.  Only if you want the change the defaults do you need to add the file yourself.

[Steel01]

I'm going to do new ones soon

Okay I'll hold off until you release it.

A cross-platform Launcher is in the works which will make it much easier to specify options and use mods.

Cool that will eliminate 5, 6, and 7. Any idea on the timetable of it?

[taylor]

Cool that will eliminate 5, 6, and 7. Any idea on the timetable of it?

Yeah it should pretty much emliminate those as a concern.  No idea of a time frame yet.  I had started working on it the end of last year but got busy working on other things and just haven't gotten back to it yet.  I did think of a few new features to add in the meantime though, and will probably redesign the UI that I have now to be something that is a bit more user friendly.  UI design wise, the current Windows launcher sucks ass.

There is a lot of self-generated pressure to get the new Launcher done though so I'll probably get back to work on it soon and not do much else until it's done.  I've got a few bugs to take care of this weekend but after that I'll probably take a break from all bug hunting and just concentrate on the few main things that I need to get done (OS X universal binaries, Linux x86/x86_64 builds, new launcher, new sound code, movie code, pilot code, new PXO, graphics code, new font code, new UI code).

[CaptJosh]

Let me know when you're ready to beta test the new launcher.

[taylor]

Let me know when you're ready to beta test the new launcher.

There isn't going to be a beta actually.  I'm going to complete it and then it will be passed off as an internal developer thing (given the nature and amount of the changes it will need a consensus, or a small rewrite) and I'll get karajorma to sign off on it.  After that it will just be put in CVS and builds will be released to the public.

Given that it is part of another big update (for new fully cross-platform ini files), and the fact that it will totally break the old Launcher, all of the developers have to agree on what this first version will be able to do.  If we can't agree to making all of the game changes right now then a cut down version of the new Launcher will be made available instead.  The other changes will then be filtered in over time.  No one will need to get one of the in-between versions though, so no betas.

[CaptJosh]

Understood. I'll help as best I can, anyway. I'm starting to learn how to program and I have a copy of Borland C++ builder that has CLX support for application cross platform compatibility.

[Steel01]

There is a lot of self-generated pressure to get the new Launcher done though so I'll probably get back to work on it soon and not do much else until it's done.  I've got a few bugs to take care of this weekend but after that I'll probably take a break from all bug hunting and just concentrate on the few main things that I need to get done (OS X universal binaries, Linux x86/x86_64 builds, new launcher, new sound code, movie code, pilot code, new PXO, graphics code, new font code, new UI code).

Wow, that a lot of stuff to get done. It sounds like a complete rewrite.
When you get a new binary setup out; 1, 2, and 3 will be eliminated. And with the answer to 4 I can get the rest working.
Now, I don't want to rush you or anything... 

[karajorma]

Taylor is a machine. He does a lot of stuff in the background that most people who don't read this forum regularly don't notice. But lets just say that he's the main reason why OpenGL went from being the broken, poorly supported API to almost completely replacing D3D as the API of choice for most people.

As for your DVD idea I like it a lot. One small comment I would make is to make sure that your media VPs are in a folder called mediavps. I went through a whole bunch of trouble making sure that Windows users had a directory name that was compatible with Linus and it will be rather pointless if Linux users end up using a different name.

There isn't going to be a beta actually.  I'm going to complete it and then it will be passed off as an internal developer thing (given the nature and amount of the changes it will need a consensus, or a small rewrite) and I'll get karajorma to sign off on it.  After that it will just be put in CVS and builds will be released to the public.

I appreciate the consideration Taylor Look forwards to seeing a post on the internal about it

[Steel01]

It should still be on my site somewhere (just look through http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/).  I'm going to do new ones soon but have put it off until I get OGL updated to not link and instead load at runtime.  OpenAL will also get this treatment but that will have to wait a little while longer.

It's not there anymore. It appears you have reorganized you site since I was last there.
How long before and how hard is it for you to statically link the binaries?

Taylor is a machine. He does a lot of stuff in the background that most people who don't read this forum regularly don't notice. But lets just say that he's the main reason why OpenGL went from being the broken, poorly supported API to almost completely replacing D3D as the API of choice for most people.

And he coded cross-compatibility. Now if he would finish ogl enviroment mapping. 

As for your DVD idea I like it a lot. One small comment I would make is to make sure that your media VPs are in a folder called mediavps. I went through a whole bunch of trouble making sure that Windows users had a directory name that was compatible with Linus and it will be rather pointless if Linux users end up using a different name.

Thanks.
Have you updated your mod.ini collection to reflect this? I seem to have lost the link.
(And is Linus a typo for Linux?)

Now for a few more questions:
8. Do all the directories have to be in lower case and without underscores to work on Linux?
9. In Linux, I installed to /usr/local/games/freespace2 and got the 'cannot find web curser' error. I ran the binary via a static link in /usr/local/bin. Do I need to make a script that cd's to the install dir, then run the real binary?
10. Does fs2_open read the cd/dvd drive anymore?? I seem to remember when it would read all but root_fs2, sparky_fs2, and sparky_hi_fs2. Now it doesn't read anything. Can this be made to work again, in Linux and Windows?
11. When I play FS_Port, the Media VP splash screen shows up instead of FS_Ports'; I am using Karajorma's first mod.ini.
12. If I was to put this up on bittorrent, what CLEAN tracker could I use? (I would ask about HLPBTT; but MR. Fury, whom I assume runs the BTT, doesn't appear to want something like this up there)

Just read the conversation on the auto-updating setup in the BTT forum. I think I can make my windows setup download updates for the launcher, fs2_open builds, and the media vp's. But I do not think I can make it version check. So it would have to make exclusive options: 'install from DVD' and 'download latest'. However, someone would have to keep a set location with set filenames updated. I have no clue how to make loki_setup download updates, but most linux users will be able to manually update anyway.

[taylor]

It's not there anymore. It appears you have reorganized you site since I was last there.
How long before and how hard is it for you to statically link the binaries?

It would just take me doing the builds.  Going static with the libs is trivial.  I'm still working towards universal binary builds for OS X and it will probably not be until I get those done that I release a new full set of builds.  At that point I'll release the new Linux binaries too.  I suspect it will be at some point this week, or this weekend, when all of that happens.

And he coded cross-compatibility. Now if he would finish ogl enviroment mapping. 

New launcher and pilot code comes first.  Then I'll start work on the GL code again.

8. Do all the directories have to be in lower case and without underscores to work on Linux?

Yes.  Except for the underscore thing, that shouldn't be an issue (and if it is, I don't know about it).

9. In Linux, I installed to /usr/local/games/freespace2 and got the 'cannot find web curser' error. I ran the binary via a static link in /usr/local/bin. Do I need to make a script that cd's to the install dir, then run the real binary?

Yes, the game needs to be in the working directory when run.  The best way to do this is with a shell script.  I've always just used modified versions of startup scripts from Loki (the ones from Sam Lantinga).  The one I included with the previous FS2_Open Linux installer was modified to use it's own GL libs if the system versions were too old.

10. Does fs2_open read the cd/dvd drive anymore?? I seem to remember when it would read all but root_fs2, sparky_fs2, and sparky_hi_fs2. Now it doesn't read anything. Can this be made to work again, in Linux and Windows?

It doesn't use the CD anymore.  I had partially working code for the icculus.org version at one point, but it didn't allow you to easily eject and replace the CD under Linux.  So, it never hit CVS.  The main point of the previous code was not so much to allow CD use, but other filesystem use.  You could even use an NFS/SMB mount to get to the VP files.  At some point I plan to modify/complete that code and get it into FSO but that's just something I'll do when I'm *really* bored one day.

11. When I play FS_Port, the Media VP splash screen shows up instead of FS_Ports'; I am using Karajorma's first mod.ini.

The mod.ini files only work from the Launcher, the game knows nothing about them.  So if you aren't running from the launcher then you'll have to specify the mod directories by hand (ie, "-mod fsport,mediavps").

The new launcher is going to introduce the idea of profiles.  You can set up a profile for FSPort with all of the options and other game settings you want for that mod, including which binary to use, and easily run with those settings.  Support for this will be at the game level too so you could setup a shellscript/shortcut with "launcher.exe -profile FSPort" and it would jump right to the game with all of the settings you like for the port.  Or you could just do "fs2_open.exe -profile FSPort" and it will also use all of the profile settings, except for a different game binary.  The profiles are stored in an ini file so you can either use the launcher to create/edit/delete the profiles or do it by hand in the ini file.

Oh and mod.ini files will still be usable with the new launcher, the launcher will inherit the settings from mod.ini for use by the profile, but they won't be at the game level like profiles will be.  You can think of the profile.ini files as modular tables, you can have many of them and they will all be searched through for the profile that you want.  They will basically be the new type of mod.ini file, except on steroids, and fully cross-platform.

[Steel01]

It would just take me doing the builds.  Going static with the libs is trivial.  I'm still working towards universal binary builds for OS X and it will probably not be until I get those done that I release a new full set of builds.  At that point I'll release the new Linux binaries too.  I suspect it will be at some point this week, or this weekend, when all of that happens.

Sweet.

New launcher and pilot code comes first.  Then I'll start work on the GL code again.

Alright. Any chance the new launcher will be done in a month or two? 

It doesn't use the CD anymore.  I had partially working code for the icculus.org version at one point, but it didn't allow you to easily eject and replace the CD under Linux.  So, it never hit CVS.  The main point of the previous code was not so much to allow CD use, but other filesystem use.  You could even use an NFS/SMB mount to get to the VP files.  At some point I plan to modify/complete that code and get it into FSO but that's just something I'll do when I'm *really* bored one day.

Too bad; My DVD is set up with the main vp's and fs2 cutscenes in the root folder.

The mod.ini files only work from the Launcher, the game knows nothing about them.  So if you aren't running from the launcher then you'll have to specify the mod directories by hand (ie, "-mod fsport,mediavps").

I should have clarified this. I did use the launcher. Chosen mod: FS_Port. In the mod.ini: 'secondrylist = ,Media_VPs;'. So it should read FS_Port first, then after that the Media VP's. Thus it should show the FS_Port splash screen. There is a preload.pcx and a 2_preload.pcx in fsport_3_0.vp. Could the tga's in the mvp's override the pcx's in fsport?

[Spectre-7]

8. Do all the directories have to be in lower case and without underscores to work on Linux?

Yes.  Except for the underscore thing, that shouldn't be an issue (and if it is, I don't know about it).

Funny.  I haven't had any problems with this.  My mod folder is ./Media_VP     *shrug*

[CaptJosh]

Yes, the game needs to be in the working directory when run.  The best way to do this is with a shell script.  I've always just used modified versions of startup scripts from Loki (the ones from Sam Lantinga).  The one I included with the previous FS2_Open Linux installer was modified to use it's own GL libs if the system versions were too old.

Actually, I was able to make a KDE desktop shortcut that works. I don't I'll need to put together some screenshots in order to demonstrate, but...

[Steel01]

Okay, I am going to need help with that startup script.
The easiest way to do that I see is to set an environment variable in the setup. But it seems I do not know the command to make a permanent environment variable. How is this done in a script? Then all I would need to do is 'cd $fs2_path & ./fs2_open_r'.

Is anyone intersted in the update feature?

I am somewhat considering adding a mac osx setup to make this disc universal. But I do not have a mac nor want one. Does anyone know how to make a mac setup from x86 windows or linux?

Edit: slight outburst removed and question rephrased. I haven't been feeling the greatest lately.
I will finish making this, I just do not know if I will release it.

[Steel01]

I seem to be making a habit of double posting.

Does anyone know how to set a global environment variable via a script. The only way I know how to set a global EV is directly editing /etc/profile.
(Should I just wait for the script in the upcoming binary setup?)

After doing some research, I think I will drop the update idea. It would be ugly to implement.

If I added Mac OSX support, would it be used? Although I still do not know how to make a Mac setup from Windows. I would gladly work with someone else that has a Mac, if someone would volunteer to help.

[taylor]

Does anyone know how to set a global environment variable via a script. The only way I know how to set a global EV is directly editing /etc/profile.
(Should I just wait for the script in the upcoming binary setup?)

Define "global".  An environment variable set in a script is valid only as long as the script is running (aside from the obvious init/daemon stuff), and only for the programs envoked by that script (or that otherwise inherits the variables).  I'm not sure what you need to set but I can't really see anything that needs to be system wide.  What are you wanting?

And there is already an OS X setup/install available so I don't know if anyone would use yours.  Some would obviously but I'm not sure how much help you would get.  I've asked for an intermediate Launcher and installer for OS X while the new ones are in development, but no one has wanted to do much but complain about not having them.

Also I do have a cross-platform installer in the works.  It can (will) install the files off the original CDs inside all platforms as well as handle things like MediaVPs and what not.  We've pretty much got a new game now so it's time to have a new official installer for those who don't want to (or can't) install the full retail version just to get SCP.  I've just about shelved this project though, as I prioritized other things, but I'll return to it at some point later this year.  Long time away, but just FYI.

[Steel01]

Global as in system-wide. I need the variable to point to the fs2 install dir. This would be set by a loki_setup post-install script, ideally. Then the startup script would cd to the install dir and execute fs2_open_r. This is needed because a user can install to wherever they so please. I you know another way to find the install dir, please tell me.

Do you have a link to the Mac OSX setup; is it a full install?

What are you using to create this cross-platform installer; and is it freeware? Do you not want the original data files inside the officail installer? Because I wouldn't mind keeping mine updated. Having something created by me called official would be cool. 

[taylor]

Use the startup scripts from Loki like I do, but modified for your use of course.  You don't need to actually know where the user installed in that case since the bulk of the script just determines and sets up the path for the game.  The OS X version does something like this too, but in the OS X case it's all internal to the FS2_Open  binary itself so that it doesn't need any external script or anything.

I don't have a link the the OS X thing since I have never paid much attention to it (since it, like every other download, is technically illegal).  From what I understand though it's a full install, ready to use.  You just copy it to /Applications and you are done.

The new installer I'm making is made with wxWidgets for the cross-platform interface side, and is totally from scratch.  It's not a generic install system like InstallShield or something like that.  It's specifically for Freespace/SCP.  And it will be released under the GPL.  It also uses a cross-platform lib which can extract files from the InstallShield cab files that are on the original CDs.  This way you can just use the installer and do a full install of Freespace2 from the original retail CD, but without having to use the original installer, and without actually having to install the retail binaries either.  The installer is also going to be capable of installing from a user-made CD or DVD and install the demo version of FS2 (there will likely be an official SCP based FS2 demo by then too).  I also plan for the installer to be capable of being used by the bigger MODs/TCs too so that they can have a custom SCP installer that's cross-platform and supported by the SCP community.  The installer will also have an integrated updater so that you always have to ability to keep up-to-date as well (that's the plan anyway, I'm pretty far from that point right now).

But like I said, the installer I'm working on is at least 7-8 months away.  What's considered official between now and then is something else entirely.  The problem with all of the current stuff (full downloads of original data) is the legality of it, or lack of it really, so any such thing could never be considered "official".  The installer I'm working on will be able to use the original CDs as is so it wouldn't have any legal issues from that, but it's also flexible enough that you could make your own DVD of FS2 data and FS2_Open and still use the same installer.  SCP will be able to use it as an official full installer without legal conserns, and the community will basically have an easier time of stealing the game too.