[redmenace]

Balance Budget Admendment & REAL fiscal responcibility

[achtung]

Damn, I just realised I worded something wrong.  I meant to say, make it so that people are looked into more before they can get welfare.  There are people who have an educarion, can easily work, and have gotten job offers, they are just too lazy to get out and work.  So no, I'm not blaming the poor, I'm blaming bums.

Note to self, never, ever make a post early in the morning again.

[Stealth]

Bad idea. This drives the people who would be doing cheap labor out of work, because the immigrants do it cheaper. Law of supply and demand: if the supply of labor goes up and the demand for labor stays the same, the price of labor (i.e. wages) go down.

That's one of the biggest arguments people have.  I say it's void because how many Americans would want to work in 105 degree heat, at 98% humidity, 6 days a week, 12 hours a day, mowing people's yards?  or painting houses?  or carrying bricks to construct houses?  or building highways? ... not many.  I know I wouldn't.  Americans are always quick to say "they're taking our jobs!  deport them!" but what it boils down to is they're not really 'taking' anyone's job...

[Goober5000]

*snip*

In other words, gold was becoming more of a problem than it was worth.

But decoupling the dollar from its foundation isn't the solution.  Honestly, I hope I'm wrong, but if the USA's debt gets called sometime in the future, we're going to have to find some way of converting paper dollars into tangible assets.  If we had a dollar of gold for every dollar of paper we'd be safe, but we don't.

Bad idea. This drives the people who would be doing cheap labor out of work, because the immigrants do it cheaper. Law of supply and demand: if the supply of labor goes up and the demand for labor stays the same, the price of labor (i.e. wages) go down.

That's one of the biggest arguments people have. I say it's void because how many Americans would want to work in 105 degree heat, at 98% humidity, 6 days a week, 12 hours a day, mowing people's yards? or painting houses? or carrying bricks to construct houses? or building highways? ... not many. I know I wouldn't. Americans are always quick to say "they're taking our jobs! deport them!" but what it boils down to is they're not really 'taking' anyone's job...

It's all about pricing.  Illegal immigrants are willing to do those jobs for less than Americans are.  No illegal immigrants = wages go up = more Americans are willing to do them.

It's not only Joe Sixpack either - kids in high school need jobs (as well as the proverbial "character-building" experience) too.

[Blue Lion]

But decoupling the dollar from its foundation isn't the solution.  Honestly, I hope I'm wrong, but if the USA's debt gets called sometime in the future, we're going to have to find some way of converting paper dollars into tangible assets.  If we had a dollar of gold for every dollar of paper we'd be safe, but we don't.

Well realisticly, putting us back on the gold standard won't solve anything. If we have enough gold to cover our bills, we're cool. If we're forced to pony up all our debts right now in solid gold, we, and by extension everyone else, is royally screwed. If you cut the feet out of the US, everyone feels the pinch. And no one is gonna be able to step up and handle the slack, I don't care how patriotic you are. Putting the US on a gold standard isn't going to slow spending.

We need to remove ourselves from precious metals, not fall back on them.

[Turnsky]

But decoupling the dollar from its foundation isn't the solution.  Honestly, I hope I'm wrong, but if the USA's debt gets called sometime in the future, we're going to have to find some way of converting paper dollars into tangible assets.  If we had a dollar of gold for every dollar of paper we'd be safe, but we don't.

Well realisticly, putting us back on the gold standard won't solve anything. If we have enough gold to cover our bills, we're cool. If we're forced to pony up all our debts right now in solid gold, we, and by extension everyone else, is royally screwed. If you cut the feet out of the US, everyone feels the pinch. And no one is gonna be able to step up and handle the slack, I don't care how patriotic you are. Putting the US on a gold standard isn't going to slow spending.

We need to remove ourselves from precious metals, not fall back on them.

true, but as you said, if the US has enough by way of gold to pay off its debts, it'd be fine, mind you, that's a band-aid solution at best, the only real long-term solution is to fix the budget, but solving the deficit itself, would help tons.

[Blue Lion]

Fix the budget = good.

Switching to gold standard and watch the global economy go haywire while we all try to figure out what to do = bad

Remember we've been off the gold standard for 30+ years. Gold has moved since then, they can't just flip a switch and be back on gold.

[Taristin]

*snip*

In other words, gold was becoming more of a problem than it was worth.

But decoupling the dollar from its foundation isn't the solution.  Honestly, I hope I'm wrong, but if the USA's debt gets called sometime in the future, we're going to have to find some way of converting paper dollars into tangible assets.  If we had a dollar of gold for every dollar of paper we'd be safe, but we don't.

Well, if China calls us out, we can give them California.

[Shade]

If you had a dollar of gold for every dollar of paper today, you'd have, well maybe not exactly a black hole, but a lot more gold than the world has to offer It's just not practical with the size of today's economies, even if sometimes the concept may seem valid enough. Besides, this isn't the end of the world yet. It's simply raising the debt ceiling, something which has happened several times before. The end of the world doesn't come until the US decides it doesn't really want to pay it's outstanding debts.

[Bobboau]

how many Americans would want to work in 105 degree heat, at 98% humidity, 6 days a week, 12 hours a day, mowing people's yards? or painting houses? or carrying bricks to construct houses? or building highways? ... not many. I know I wouldn't. Americans are always quick to say "they're taking our jobs! deport them!" but what it boils down to is they're not really 'taking' anyone's job...

I'd do that if you paied me enough.

[Blue Lion]

I got some yardwork that needs to be done 

[Kosh]

Besides, this isn't the end of the world yet. It's simply raising the debt ceiling, something which has happened several times before. The end of the world doesn't come until the US decides it doesn't really want to pay it's outstanding debts.

True, but paying INTEREST on the debt is eating up 1/3 of the budget as it is. Just wait 5 years and see how much bigger that percentage will be.....

At least the leadership in this country seems to have some foresight.....

[Stealth]

I'd do that if you paied me enough.

so instead of paying lawn mowers / construction workers / etc. $7.50 per hour, let's bump it up to $22.00/hour. 

... and how do you think THAT would affect the economy!? how many businesses would go under...

[Goober5000]

so instead of paying lawn mowers / construction workers / etc. $7.50 per hour, let's bump it up to $22.00/hour.

... and how do you think THAT would affect the economy!? how many businesses would go under...

Things don't happen in a vacuum.  If they get paid more, they have more purchasing power and they can buy more stuff.

They can also save more, although saving seems to be a lost art nowadays.

[Dough with Fish]

I ****ing hate economics. I felt like I had to say that, don't really know why. Eh, whatever... continue.

[Blue Lion]

Things don't happen in a vacuum.  If they get paid more, they have more purchasing power and they can buy more stuff.

They can also save more, although saving seems to be a lost art nowadays.

Yea, people can spend all that extra money on the now $300  lawnmowing.

You can't just pay people more without charging more then.

[WMCoolmon]

$22/hr for lawnmowing? **** yes. I'd just buy myself a gigantic water-bottle backpack, slap on some ultra-super sunscreen, and get to it.

[brozozo]

Is is just me, or does John Snow look like Jack Nichalson without the shades?

[karajorma]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the US spent ages trying to bankrupt the USSR so as to defeat communism and China took about 5 years to do it to the US?

[Wild Fragaria]

It's all about pricing.  Illegal immigrants are willing to do those jobs for less than Americans are.  No illegal immigrants = wages go up = more Americans are willing to do them.

Goober, I have to say that I strongly disagree with what you are saying.  Yes, I will agree with you that illegal immigrants take many jobs away from our fellow citizens, but getting rid of them will not make the pay higher.  One of the biggest issues in this country is unions.  And most of the people doing the lower paid jobs are union people.  I don’t think that someone who is driving a bus, for example, should get paid what they do, but the stupid union allows them to make such money.  The problem is with Americans as well.  They are so used to a certain lifestyle, that they do not want jobs that don’t have healthcare, that pay like ****, and that have no benefits whatsoever.  However, in dire times, like we are almost in, people will take anything.  And, those who are unemployed should take the jobs, but again, because of our high lifestyle living and obsession with material objects, people feel they should not take those jobs. 

The next thing is welfare.  Someone on the board said it already.  Make the welfare people do the jobs that illegal immigrants have instead of being such lazy dumbasses sucking off our government. 
 
Last but not least, I would like to know, how do you know our fellow Americans will be willing to take the same jobs if the pay is higher?  And how high do you reckon the pay will get without the involvement of foreigners?

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the US spent ages trying to bankrupt the USSR so as to defeat communism and China took about 5 years to do it to the US?

Funny, but well pointed out, Kara